The corona virus COVID-19

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I quite like Albo too, I don't think changing leadership will help, the ALP needs to attack these do nothing non accountable non responsible inept pathetic excuse of a government
The only vision this government has is to win the next election.
Whereas the ALP don't care about winning elections, they'd much rather be morally superior. Right?
I actually agree with Don for once, each way Albo is as weak as water, he is channelling shifty Shorten in so many ways it's not funny, the ALP needs a leadership change, and fast!
lsrailfan
Their own research tells them that they're not connecting with traditional blue-collar Labor voters any longer - but then again if you're a tradie earning in excess of six figures why on earth would you want to vote Labor anyway? As that ETU of NSW survey I quoted said, union members don't like the Labor Party, they don't feel that it represents their world view and one in four don't even vote Labor any longer because they feel it offers them nothing.

It's kinda reminiscent of the 1980's where Hawke had captured the votes of the workers AND the middle class (Menzies' forgotten people) leaving the Liberals with nowhere to go - we're seeing the same thing in reverse now in the 2020's with the LNP having captured much of Labor's traditional support base such as tradies and other skilled working people because the ALP narrative of relentless 'gender equity', 'climate justice' etc etc simply doesn't appeal to them.

Coal mining in particular has the Labor Party wedged right up the wazoo - they can't come out in support of it or they'll lose their latte sipping green-tinged inner city types but then they can't condemn all the coal mines to closure because they'll never, ever win in places like the Bowen Basin or Hunter Valley ever again. Albo looks like he's about to pop a vein any time anyone asks him about coal mining - it's a problem they just can't find an answer to.

Interesting times.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Whereas the ALP don't care about winning elections, they'd much rather be morally superior. Right?
"don_dunstan"
This is the mid-1960's revisited when Whitlam rounded on the ALP boneheads and commented along the lines that, "We sit in opposition and discuss the purity of our principles, fiddle with numbers, and gravely announce that we shall at this rate win power in 1994. Purity? Certainly the impotent are pure."
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
So what re you saying Don.

"F__k it, time to just get on  with it. CV-19 only kills thats who are un healthy or near the end anyway."

Or

"No we cannot open the borders because of CV-19"

pick a side?

This issue will come to a cross roads early 2022 as the Fed election comes into play. There are likely alot of Australian's who will want to travel by then and don't want to be locked up indefinitely.
I didn't say 'just get on with it' and kill everyone unhealthy. Where did I say that?

And you said Australia couldn't hide forever. I'm saying we've already been doing just that for 12 months and it could possibly go on for years. People have bought it to date, why wouldn't they go on buying it for years to come?

An election issue... yeah, nah.
don_dunstan
You basically are.

You are saying mostly very old and people with issues, some self inflicted are dying, so lets learn to live with this. If you are not saying this please feel free to share what you really think because that's all you have said for nearly a year now.

Yes, I'm saying Australia cannot hide forever. As other countries learn to manage the situation, which is what you have been saying Australia needs to do, they open up in a controlled manner.

Australia is a country of immigrants, people want to see their families.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I quite like Albo too, I don't think changing leadership will help, the ALP needs to attack these do nothing non accountable non responsible inept pathetic excuse of a government
The only vision this government has is to win the next election.
Whereas the ALP don't care about winning elections, they'd much rather be morally superior. Right?
I actually agree with Don for once, each way Albo is as weak as water, he is channelling shifty Shorten in so many ways it's not funny, the ALP needs a leadership change, and fast!
Their own research tells them that they're not connecting with traditional blue-collar Labor voters any longer - but then again if you're a tradie earning in excess of six figures why on earth would you want to vote Labor anyway? As that ETU of NSW survey I quoted said, union members don't like the Labor Party, they don't feel that it represents their world view and one in four don't even vote Labor any longer because they feel it offers them nothing.

It's kinda reminiscent of the 1980's where Hawke had captured the votes of the workers AND the middle class (Menzies' forgotten people) leaving the Liberals with nowhere to go - we're seeing the same thing in reverse now in the 2020's with the LNP having captured much of Labor's traditional support base such as tradies and other skilled working people because the ALP narrative of relentless 'gender equity', 'climate justice' etc etc simply doesn't appeal to them.

Coal mining in particular has the Labor Party wedged right up the wazoo - they can't come out in support of it or they'll lose their latte sipping green-tinged inner city types but then they can't condemn all the coal mines to closure because they'll never, ever win in places like the Bowen Basin or Hunter Valley ever again. Albo looks like he's about to pop a vein any time anyone asks him about coal mining - it's a problem they just can't find an answer to.

Interesting times.
don_dunstan
Who is the ALP voter of today?

Union representation a fraction of what it used to be.

As you said many tradies are now a license to print money

Miners and their multi 6 figures salary's are now mostly staff contracts and opted out of unions because they knew what they were paid under unionism and don't want to go back.

Heavy industry, what we have left has moved over to staff contracts and mostly de-unionised.

At least 15 years ago, at work at Boyne Smelters we saw a failed attempt of the union to try and encourage union membership and most ignored them. They didn't even hand out their leaflets to female workers.

Many of the shift workers have 2nd jobs making use of their 12h shifts that the unions opposed to have more days off to go 2nd jobs and/or go fishing/camping.

Living in heavy industry Gladstone, most of the ALP supporters I knew of where actually well paid white collar workers, many running their own business. On the smelter and other heavy industry floor, few and far between.

Agree the LNP is stumbling a bit at the moment on some equality issues, treatment of women and also improving life of Native Australian's, but if SOCMO and team can sort their crap out here, they will romp it in.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I quite like Albo too, I don't think changing leadership will help, the ALP needs to attack these do nothing non accountable non responsible inept pathetic excuse of a government
The only vision this government has is to win the next election.
Whereas the ALP don't care about winning elections, they'd much rather be morally superior. Right?
I actually agree with Don for once, each way Albo is as weak as water, he is channelling shifty Shorten in so many ways it's not funny, the ALP needs a leadership change, and fast!
Their own research tells them that they're not connecting with traditional blue-collar Labor voters any longer - but then again if you're a tradie earning in excess of six figures why on earth would you want to vote Labor anyway? As that ETU of NSW survey I quoted said, union members don't like the Labor Party, they don't feel that it represents their world view and one in four don't even vote Labor any longer because they feel it offers them nothing.

It's kinda reminiscent of the 1980's where Hawke had captured the votes of the workers AND the middle class (Menzies' forgotten people) leaving the Liberals with nowhere to go - we're seeing the same thing in reverse now in the 2020's with the LNP having captured much of Labor's traditional support base such as tradies and other skilled working people because the ALP narrative of relentless 'gender equity', 'climate justice' etc etc simply doesn't appeal to them.

Coal mining in particular has the Labor Party wedged right up the wazoo - they can't come out in support of it or they'll lose their latte sipping green-tinged inner city types but then they can't condemn all the coal mines to closure because they'll never, ever win in places like the Bowen Basin or Hunter Valley ever again. Albo looks like he's about to pop a vein any time anyone asks him about coal mining - it's a problem they just can't find an answer to.

Interesting times.
Who is the ALP voter of today?

Union representation a fraction of what it used to be.

As you said many tradies are now a license to print money

Miners and their multi 6 figures salary's are now mostly staff contracts and opted out of unions because they knew what they were paid under unionism and don't want to go back.

Heavy industry, what we have left has moved over to staff contracts and mostly de-unionised.

At least 15 years ago, at work at Boyne Smelters we saw a failed attempt of the union to try and encourage union membership and most ignored them. They didn't even hand out their leaflets to female workers.

Many of the shift workers have 2nd jobs making use of their 12h shifts that the unions opposed to have more days off to go 2nd jobs and/or go fishing/camping.

Living in heavy industry Gladstone, most of the ALP supporters I knew of where actually well paid white collar workers, many running their own business. On the smelter and other heavy industry floor, few and far between.

Agree the LNP is stumbling a bit at the moment on some equality issues, treatment of women and also improving life of Native Australian's, but if SOCMO and team can sort their crap out here, they will romp it in.
RTT_Rules
There is a lot of dirt flying around about SCOMO and the LNP including his mystery flight to the Gold Coast to address those prosperity religion greedy scum. I think he might face increasing bother over a number of these issues.

I agree he could slide back in but not sure about romping.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Actually a lot of very young and healthy people are dying from Covid-19, I have seen numerous stories where young people have succumbed to this virus.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Actually a lot of very young and healthy people are dying from Covid-19, I have seen numerous stories where young people have succumbed to this virus.
lsrailfan

Age is by far the biggest co-mortality with COVD-19 (at least when first world health care is available).
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
All Flights from India have been suspended by the PM until at least May the 15th, due to the spiralling and out of control infection rates in India.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

There is a lot of dirt flying around about SCOMO and the LNP including his mystery flight to the Gold Coast to address those prosperity religion greedy scum. I think he might face increasing bother over a number of these issues.

I agree he could slide back in but not sure about romping.
nswtrains
Yes, lots of dirt flying around.  Although the church he visited probably doesn't adhere to the prosperity garbage.  Much of the criticism of ScoMo in this area is more the issue of secularists misunderstanding religion, especially Pentecostalism, and then dreaming up wacky and often quite hateful conspiracy theories (just as the extreme Right does with the QAnon silliness).  Flying there in the Dassault isn't a good look, although he was likely conducting official duties as well on the GC.

Back on topic - the US Embassy in Delhi is being ravaged by the virus:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/26/politics/us-diplomatic-staff-coronavirus-india/index.html

Incidentally, Barry O'Farrell is the current Australian High Commissioner in Delhi too.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
So what re you saying Don.

"F__k it, time to just get on  with it. CV-19 only kills thats who are un healthy or near the end anyway."

Or

"No we cannot open the borders because of CV-19"

pick a side?

This issue will come to a cross roads early 2022 as the Fed election comes into play. There are likely alot of Australian's who will want to travel by then and don't want to be locked up indefinitely.
I didn't say 'just get on with it' and kill everyone unhealthy. Where did I say that?

And you said Australia couldn't hide forever. I'm saying we've already been doing just that for 12 months and it could possibly go on for years. People have bought it to date, why wouldn't they go on buying it for years to come?

An election issue... yeah, nah.
You basically are.

You are saying mostly very old and people with issues, some self inflicted are dying, so lets learn to live with this. If you are not saying this please feel free to share what you really think because that's all you have said for nearly a year now.

Yes, I'm saying Australia cannot hide forever. As other countries learn to manage the situation, which is what you have been saying Australia needs to do, they open up in a controlled manner.

Australia is a country of immigrants, people want to see their families.
RTT_Rules
There's consistency in what I've been arguing for: There's no consistency in what you are.

All I've ever said on this thread is that the cost of shutdowns will eventually be un-affordable - and there's plenty of evidence that they don't work in some situations (ie the UK's 3rd wave). And now the 'vaccines' are here maybe what we should do is just vaccinate the old, the fat and the smokers and say "You're on your own now, love". Which I think is all the Chinese did in the end.

But that kind of solution - for better or for worse - will not float in Australia. You don't understand the psychology of what's happened here in the absence of any runaway virus AND fatality rates. The closest we got to the problems in the UK and USA was Melbourne and the cost to that state's economy of that 2nd wave lock-down was ENORMOUS. I saw with my own eyes a few weeks ago the economic devastation that happened there due to the virus.

However you talk to people who live there and even though there was a big economic and psychological price to pay they generally agreed with Dan's strategy in order to stop the virus getting off the leash in Victoria. Even here in South Australia we've had some pretty extreme reactions to the news that there's 14 new cases in hotel quarantine from international arrivals - the state government here dutifully complied with public outrage and stopped ALL international flights immediately. People are terrified of the virus here - they don't want it coming here and getting rampant like overseas.

My point is; people here are willing to pay the price and not have international tourism for another few years - I'm pretty sure. They're willing to do that not have COVID come here until its well and truly as benign as the common flu, whenever that will be. Trust me, I live here - I'm pretty sure I understand what people think here better than you do.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There's consistency in what I've been arguing for: There's no consistency in what you are.

All I've ever said on this thread is that the cost of shutdowns will eventually be un-affordable - and there's plenty of evidence that they don't work in some situations (ie the UK's 3rd wave). And now the 'vaccines' are here maybe what we should do is just vaccinate the old, the fat and the smokers and say "You're on your own now, love". Which I think is all the Chinese did in the end.

But that kind of solution - for better or for worse - will not float in Australia. You don't understand the psychology of what's happened here in the absence of any runaway virus AND fatality rates. The closest we got to the problems in the UK and USA was Melbourne and the cost to that state's economy of that 2nd wave lock-down was ENORMOUS. I saw with my own eyes a few weeks ago the economic devastation that happened there due to the virus.

However you talk to people who live there and even though there was a big economic and psychological price to pay they generally agreed with Dan's strategy in order to stop the virus getting off the leash in Victoria. Even here in South Australia we've had some pretty extreme reactions to the news that there's 14 new cases in hotel quarantine from international arrivals - the state government here dutifully complied with public outrage and stopped ALL international flights immediately. People are terrified of the virus here - they don't want it coming here and getting rampant like overseas.

My point is; people here are willing to pay the price and not have international tourism for another few years - I'm pretty sure. They're willing to do that not have COVID come here until its well and truly as benign as the common flu, whenever that will be. Trust me, I live here - I'm pretty sure I understand what people think here better than you do.
don_dunstan
1) You are only consistent with your inconsistency.

2) Lockdowns work to stop the spread and potentially eliminate the virus. Only a fool would think otherwise.

3) You make the vaccine available for those most at risk and based on availability of the drug, once all done, this will take 9mth. Then back to normal

4) The so called economic fall out is a jobs bonanza.

5) So now you agree, lockdowns work, so much for your consistency.

6) I live in a country with 40% of the Australian population and 1800 new cases each and every day, 50% vaccination and life still goes on. The "fear mentality" in Australia right now is hard to comprehend.

7) The virus will be here for ever and so far showing no signs of weakening. Sooner or later it will arrive, living in a cave won't change this.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

We need remote processing of returning pax in Commonwealth facilities.

I would start landing planes in RAAF airfields. Australia has been and can continue to be defended. The hotel quarantine is not perfect due to aerosol transmission and the mutations that are more contagious. The rest you know because I have told you before in the early pages of this Corono thread. The virus will fly over walls and through air-con ducts.

Will the Pfizer or the AZ jabs protect anyone from the mutations? Time to also look at what treatments may help an infected person get through illness.

A well known biosecurity researcher has hit the nail on the head about what is now needed.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/australia-reports-alarming-spike-in-hotel-quarantine-cases/news-story/cc5a9ebabe2952d4f09e68fc577604c6

I would set up camps (this thing will be around for a while) and process people in remote areas just like what the WA and Qld premiers are pleading. Their side of politics should not matter. Keep the problem away from the population centres. This can't wait until the next federal election. I know the sitting fed government does not want to carry the can for anything that goes wrong under their control and management.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
We need remote processing of returning pax in Commonwealth facilities.

I would start landing planes in RAAF airfields. Australia has been and can continue to be defended. The hotel quarantine is not perfect due to aerosol transmission and the mutations that are more contagious. The rest you know because I have told you before in the early pages of this Corono thread. The virus will fly over walls and through air-con ducts.

Will the Pfizer or the AZ jabs protect anyone from the mutations? Time to also look at what treatments may help an infected person get through illness.

A well known biosecurity researcher has hit the nail on the head about what is now needed.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/australia-reports-alarming-spike-in-hotel-quarantine-cases/news-story/cc5a9ebabe2952d4f09e68fc577604c6

I would set up camps (this thing will be around for a while) and process people in remote areas just like what the WA and Qld premiers are pleading. Their side of politics should not matter. Keep the problem away from the population centres. This can't wait until the next federal election. I know the sitting fed government does not want to carry the can for anything that goes wrong under their control and management.
ANR
Where are you going to get workers for these remote locations?   Where is the medical facilities at these remote locations?  How are you going to transport people to these remote locations - 3 hours in a bus?   Hotel quarantine is used as it is convenient, cheap, and considering the number of escapes of the virus compared to the number of travellers through the system, safe.  (It would be safer if the quality of hotel and staff was better - and that might not change even in a remote location.)
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We need remote processing of returning pax in Commonwealth facilities.

I would start landing planes in RAAF airfields. Australia has been and can continue to be defended. The hotel quarantine is not perfect due to aerosol transmission and the mutations that are more contagious. The rest you know because I have told you before in the early pages of this Corono thread. The virus will fly over walls and through air-con ducts.

Will the Pfizer or the AZ jabs protect anyone from the mutations? Time to also look at what treatments may help an infected person get through illness.

A well known biosecurity researcher has hit the nail on the head about what is now needed.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/australia-reports-alarming-spike-in-hotel-quarantine-cases/news-story/cc5a9ebabe2952d4f09e68fc577604c6

I would set up camps (this thing will be around for a while) and process people in remote areas just like what the WA and Qld premiers are pleading. Their side of politics should not matter. Keep the problem away from the population centres. This can't wait until the next federal election. I know the sitting fed government does not want to carry the can for anything that goes wrong under their control and management.
ANR
again the issues with remote quarantine is you need to build a hotel and you cannot use a detention centre as its designed all wrong.

So if you need to use a hotel, use the ones we have providing jobs to those people. So now you need multiple camps in the one location. One for the passengers and at least two for the staff in case of leakage and then you still have the risk of staff taking it back into the community with them and for the benefit you have a huge capital and ongoing cost to the taxpayer. Meanwhile the airlines suffer more costs (read their customers) as the planes cargo is going to the wrong location and involves an empty movement.  

The issue with the guy in WA going to Vic would still have occurred.

The aerosol issue was a minor issue, now known, we move on.

The WA and Qld Premiers are playing politics on the back of a comfortable reelection victory knowing Morrison is going to the polls by next May with very strong popularity, although govt overall not so much. There is a reason this hasn't been done, in any country!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
1) You are only consistent with your inconsistency.
RTT_Rules
Yo' mama.
2) Lockdowns work to stop the spread and potentially eliminate the virus. Only a fool would think otherwise.
RTT_Rules
There's plenty of evidence that they didn't work in the UK (3rd wave) and there was no consistency across the United States.
3) You make the vaccine available for those most at risk and based on availability of the drug, once all done, this will take 9mth. Then back to normal
RTT_Rules
What 'normal'? This IS the new normal - don't you get it yet?
4) The so called economic fall out is a jobs bonanza.
RTT_Rules
No, really it's not. The borrowed money (Job-Keeper) only ran out less than a month ago - we really aren't sure of the longer term impacts on the economy, it's way too early to say.
5) So now you agree, lockdowns work, so much for your consistency.
RTT_Rules
They worked HERE, but we're the exception, not the rule. They haven't worked in places like the UK and Europe where it was simply too late for them to be effective.
6) I live in a country with 40% of the Australian population and 1800 new cases each and every day, 50% vaccination and life still goes on. The "fear mentality" in Australia right now is hard to comprehend.
RTT_Rules
We don't have any of the problems that you have - and we're prepared to keep the borders closed for as long as this goes on, mark my words.
7) The virus will be here for ever and so far showing no signs of weakening. Sooner or later it will arrive, living in a cave won't change this.
RTT_Rules
Nup, we have the will in this country (amongst others like NZ) to keep our borders closed for as long as the COVID19 boogey-man exists.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1) You are only consistent with your inconsistency.
Yo' mama.
2) Lockdowns work to stop the spread and potentially eliminate the virus. Only a fool would think otherwise.
There's plenty of evidence that they didn't work in the UK (3rd wave) and there was no consistency across the United States.
3) You make the vaccine available for those most at risk and based on availability of the drug, once all done, this will take 9mth. Then back to normal
What 'normal'? This IS the new normal - don't you get it yet?
4) The so called economic fall out is a jobs bonanza.
No, really it's not. The borrowed money (Job-Keeper) only ran out less than a month ago - we really aren't sure of the longer term impacts on the economy, it's way too early to say.
5) So now you agree, lockdowns work, so much for your consistency.
They worked HERE, but we're the exception, not the rule. They haven't worked in places like the UK and Europe where it was simply too late for them to be effective.
6) I live in a country with 40% of the Australian population and 1800 new cases each and every day, 50% vaccination and life still goes on. The "fear mentality" in Australia right now is hard to comprehend.
We don't have any of the problems that you have - and we're prepared to keep the borders closed for as long as this goes on, mark my words.
7) The virus will be here for ever and so far showing no signs of weakening. Sooner or later it will arrive, living in a cave won't change this.
Nup, we have the will in this country (amongst others like NZ) to keep our borders closed for as long as the COVID19 boogey-man exists.
don_dunstan
If a lock down doesn't work, its because its not a lock down.

Old days

Oh, now its too early to say, so why say otherwise eariler?

No, its the rule. They work everywhere where applied.

What problems do I have. We are going on holidays out of this country in 2 weeks. Doubled jabbed, with neg PCR taken 2 days before, board the plane here we go. Life is simple.

Ok, I'll bring it back in a jar for you.

If its just the Boogie man, then no fear, open up and lets go.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Will the Pfizer or the AZ jabs protect anyone from the mutations? Time to also look at what treatments may help an infected person get through illness.
ANR

It has been known for sometime that AZ is ineffective against B1.135 (Sth Africa), based on trials conducted between October and November last year.  Mass vaccination with AZ cannot possibly provide the opportunity to "return to normal".  The results of AZ's clinical trials also strongly suggest it won't achieve a population wide reduction in Reff value to below 1, against regular Wuhan COVID.  This is known.  And when this issue is raised, there is almost always deflection with "but it will turn it into the common cold".  The evidence for that is as thin as a wet piece of toilet paper.

It is also known from the clinical trials the Az is barely 50% effective against *all* infection (vs 85%-90% for the mRNAs).  Unless vaccinate yet still infected people don't transmit (possible, but there is no evidence, just "theory" about reducing viral load might be enough), then this can't stop the epidemic.

The evidence appears to be Az is similar in capability to the other Viral Vector vaccines, perhaps a bit worse.  One thing which can be said about AstraZenica, they have a bloody good marketing department.

Pz and Moderna have demonstrated in theory, in clinical trials, and in real world situation they can suppress COVID.  What is not known is how long immunity lasts, but the Pfizer head recently suggested all their customers will need a booster within 12 months.  Perhaps that is marketing.  Perhaps he knows something about their followup anti9-body studies.

I understand the results from clinical trials suggest the mRNA (and NOVAVAX) are less effective against all the VoCs, but still quite effective.  However, 75% efficacy against a more contagious COVID with an R0 of 3.5?  That'll need 85% of the total population (not just eligible) vaccinated - including kids.

It seems to me if we hope to vaccinate our way out of trouble, we need domestic mRNA production and distribution of at least 60mil doses a year (probably more), as well as a dedicated distribution system *and* a research capability rather than relying on American companies to produce a vaccine for the inevitable PNG variant.

Quite frankly, if the pandemic continues as it is around the world, vaccine evading variants are going to be thrown up faster than the vaccines can be updated.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I must admit I originally had misgivings about mRNA vaccines. After doing more reading I think they're the best way forward out of this mess.

CNN probably exaggerating a bit here:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/india/india-covid-underreporting-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

But no doubt the situation is dire.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I must admit I originally had misgivings about mRNA vaccines. After doing more reading I think they're the best way forward out of this mess.

CNN probably exaggerating a bit here:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/india/india-covid-underreporting-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

But no doubt the situation is dire.
Carnot
I think there is a major undercount in India for sure, as there is around the world, the true figure of COVID-19 may NEVER be known.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

There is a lot of dirt flying around about SCOMO and the LNP including his mystery flight to the Gold Coast to address those prosperity religion greedy scum. I think he might face increasing bother over a number of these issues.

I agree he could slide back in but not sure about romping.
Yes, lots of dirt flying around.  Although the church he visited probably doesn't adhere to the prosperity garbage.  Much of the criticism of ScoMo in this area is more the issue of secularists misunderstanding religion, especially Pentecostalism, and then dreaming up wacky and often quite hateful conspiracy theories (just as the extreme Right does with the QAnon silliness).  Flying there in the Dassault isn't a good look, although he was likely conducting official duties as well on the GC.

Back on topic - the US Embassy in Delhi is being ravaged by the virus:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/26/politics/us-diplomatic-staff-coronavirus-india/index.html

Incidentally, Barry O'Farrell is the current Australian High Commissioner in Delhi too.
Carnot
Sorry. Hillsong is a prosperity religion and us secularists certainly understand a pray for profit religion when we see it. Any criticism of Hillsong is justified as they rorted government contract and various dodgy investment schemes which lost investors money were promoted by the church. By the way, look up the 7 Pillars philosophy of this church and if that doesn't concern you I don't know what will. Anyhow, back to COVID 19.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I must admit I originally had misgivings about mRNA vaccines. After doing more reading I think they're the best way forward out of this mess.

CNN probably exaggerating a bit here:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/india/india-covid-underreporting-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

But no doubt the situation is dire.
I think there is a major undercount in India for sure, as there is around the world, the true figure of COVID-19 may NEVER be known.
lsrailfan
Anybody who has visited India realises that any form of effective spacing is impossible, especially in the poorer areas. There are just people everywhere. Only in the business centres of Mumbai etc less crowding occurs.

Perhaps shutting down religious festivals would help but an impossibility in India as there would be widespread rioting amongst the religious adherents. They can't win.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I must admit I originally had misgivings about mRNA vaccines. After doing more reading I think they're the best way forward out of this mess.

CNN probably exaggerating a bit here:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/india/india-covid-underreporting-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

But no doubt the situation is dire.
I think there is a major undercount in India for sure, as there is around the world, the true figure of COVID-19 may NEVER be known.
Anybody who has visited India realises that any form of effective spacing is impossible, especially in the poorer areas. There are just people everywhere. Only in the business centres of Mumbai etc less crowding occurs.

Perhaps shutting down religious festivals would help but an impossibility in India as there would be widespread rioting amongst the religious adherents. They can't win.
nswtrains
I have a friend that used to visit India regularly to help with a children's home over there. she says it's an eye opener for sure!
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The recent Kum Mala Festival in Haridwar had 30 million rock up, catch the virus, then took it back home spreading it everywhere.

And a point of order - Hillsong is a separate denomination to the ACC church that ScoMo visited last week.  That's been the case for several years.  Also, ScoMo regularly attends an ACC church, not a Hillsong one.  Besides, while prosperity doctrine is believed in some quarters in both, many (if not most) within it reject it outright.  "Word of Faith" churches are another matter altogether - they are completely infected and founded on it.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
The situation in India is really bad as we all know, the official infection rate yesterday was some 380,000, the deaths was some 3,601, both of those are estimated to be way higher than the actual numbers portrayed.
I have been hearing also about possible "double mutant" strains of the virus over there, I have even been hearing some of the doctors saying that the Vaccines are not working on these strains as they should be, I'm unsure how reliable this is, but if true, this could put us back at almost square 1 as it were.

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