The China Problem

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by dthead on 17 Feb 2022 16:40
  doyle Chief Commissioner

question to you Carnot what is it you think that Scroto poking the panda will lead to?

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  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
We get our model trains Made in Australia?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Unfortunately, we have to live with the fact that Morrison's major thought is that he must look tough at any cost. His mate Dutton is just as bad.
Actually, Cottees marketed a range of dessert toppings named after those two - "Rich and Thick."
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
As opposed to the ALP who work on the Godfreys theory - "We suck."
  Carnot Minister for Railways

At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

... Morrison's major thought is that he must look tough at any cost. His mate Dutton is just as bad.
Actually, Cottees marketed a range of dessert toppings named after those two - "Rich and Thick."
Valvegear

As a diplomatic strategy Good Cop/Bad Cop is not entirely unprecedented.  But when our Lord Voldemort is as believable as Mr Potato Head, it does rather undermine our credibility.  I'm sure our adversaries are shipping themselves.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
Carnot

Scroto is falling over backwards to be re elected
He's not fit to pe prime minister
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
Carnot

Scroto is falling over backwards to be re elected
He's not fit to pe prime minister
doyle
If he is re-elected, and I hope he isn’t. That would make the first PM since Howard to serve a full term.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Unfortunately, we have to live with the fact that Morrison's major thought is that he must look tough at any cost. His mate Dutton is just as bad.
Actually, Cottees marketed a range of dessert toppings named after those two - "Rich and Thick."
Valvegear
Check out Morrison’s pecuniary interest register, doesn’t appear that rich on paper.
Thick on the other hand, that a matter of opinion.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Unfortunately, we have to live with the fact that Morrison's major thought is that he must look tough at any cost. His mate Dutton is just as bad.
Actually, Cottees marketed a range of dessert toppings named after those two - "Rich and Thick."
Valvegear
ScoMo and Dutton et al are NOT being belligerent - all they're doing is telling China the truth and (of course) there's nothing that communists hate more than truth-telling so its off to the sin bin we go.

Jacinda Ardern has indicated that she's willing to imagine that unicorns are real - anything that the communists want really - so she's getting a pat on the head. For now.

I'll ask you again: Can you name any time in human history where sucking up to a dictatorship has had good long-term results?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
Carnot

Scroto is falling over backwards to be re elected
He's not fit to pe prime minister
If he is re-elected, and I hope he isn’t. That would make the first PM since Howard to serve a full term.
michaelgm
Oh yeah, that's right.

Newspoll shows Labor in exactly the same election-losing position that they were in 2019. Whatever they have up their collective sleeve they'd better pull it out because the public still doesn't like them.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
Carnot

Scroto is falling over backwards to be re elected
He's not fit to pe prime minister
doyle
Oops, I was agreeing with the part that Carnot wrote.

You seriously think the Labor Party will be better than the LNP - how? In what ways?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
At least we're not willing to be silenced by Chinese aggression.  Glad that ScoMo isn't falling over backwards to appease the CCP thugs.
Carnot
All these appeasers here have no concept of how you deal with thugs - neither does the Labor Party after that statement from Penny Wong the other day that we should just shut the hell up to appease a murderous dictatorship. Pathetic, p*ss weak really, I would have expected better from her.

Don't give them an inch.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

I'll ask you again: Can you name any time in human history where sucking up to a dictatorship has had good long-term results?

No,

I've never said Australia should suck up to anyone
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Who here wants to appease them? I reckon none of us, certainly not me.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

I've been suitably outraged for years now, that both sides of politics have allowed wineries farms and a multitude of business to enter foreign hands

But tell me that standing up to a bully like china will achieve what exactly?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
I've been suitably outraged for years now, that both sides of politics have allowed wineries farms and a multitude of business to enter foreign hands

But tell me that standing up to a bully like china will achieve what exactly?
doyle
It isn't 'standing up to them' - all we are doing is insisting that the CCP should be subjected to the same laws and rules as everyone else is in Australia. And they don't like it - they want to be 'special' and beyond reproach - they especially do not want any adverse media coverage of their activities.

If we cave and give them what they want what do you think will happen to rule of law and democratic processes if we allow them to be a 'special case'?
  doyle Chief Commissioner
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I've been suitably outraged for years now, that both sides of politics have allowed wineries farms and a multitude of business to enter foreign hands

But tell me that standing up to a bully like china will achieve what exactly?
It isn't 'standing up to them' - all we are doing is insisting that the CCP should be subjected to the same laws and rules as everyone else is in Australia. And they don't like it - they want to be 'special' and beyond reproach - they especially do not want any adverse media coverage of their activities.

If we cave and give them what they want what do you think will happen to rule of law and democratic processes if we allow them to be a 'special case'?
don_dunstan
Not to mention the lack of reciprocity - Foreign investment in China and Chinese businesses is very tightly controlled. Last I checked most businesses investing in China had to have a 50% Chinese investment partner (many of who then "borrow" IP from the foreign investors)

And try buying property in China as a foreigner and see how you go!!! All sorts of hoops and regulations to navigate if indeed you are allowed to do it.

Yet they think that they should be subject to a completely different (and more favourable) set of rules in Australia
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/07/australias-anti-war-movement-is-depleted-who-will-stop-the-march-to-the-drums-of-war

I'm totally shocked that unicorns are mythical
doyle
Who in the western world is actively calling for war with China?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
I've been suitably outraged for years now, that both sides of politics have allowed wineries farms and a multitude of business to enter foreign hands

But tell me that standing up to a bully like china will achieve what exactly?
It isn't 'standing up to them' - all we are doing is insisting that the CCP should be subjected to the same laws and rules as everyone else is in Australia. And they don't like it - they want to be 'special' and beyond reproach - they especially do not want any adverse media coverage of their activities.

If we cave and give them what they want what do you think will happen to rule of law and democratic processes if we allow them to be a 'special case'?
Not to mention the lack of reciprocity - Foreign investment in China and Chinese businesses is very tightly controlled. Last I checked most businesses investing in China had to have a 50% Chinese investment partner (many of who then "borrow" IP from the foreign investors)

And try buying property in China as a foreigner and see how you go!!! All sorts of hoops and regulations to navigate if indeed you are allowed to do it.

Yet they think that they should be subject to a completely different (and more favourable) set of rules in Australia
BrentonGolding
Nice synopsis - Australia gets no special favors from China and yet they want to be made exempt from free media and the rule of law in Australia because they're China. The fact that some people in the Labor Party (and indeed the LNP) are considering giving them what they want is ludicrous. The core tenets of liberal democracy are both freedom of the press and equality before the law. The Chinese Communist Party effectively want the abolition of both for them to 'normalise' the trade relationship.

And I don't believe foreign ownership of real estate is allowed at all in China.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Their behaviour is no different to that of Captains of Industry who demand favourable treatment from banks, municipal authorities and whatnot, dangling the promise of economic gain in return for favourable treatment. I imagine they don't so much believe that they should get this favourable treatment as they can get it.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Their behaviour is no different to that of Captains of Industry who demand favourable treatment from banks, municipal authorities and whatnot, dangling the promise of economic gain in return for favourable treatment. I imagine they don't so much believe that they should get this favourable treatment as they can get it.
billybaxter
So following that logic, because a few really wealthy people can get away with stuff why bother stopping a whole nation from doing it to us.

Right? I'm pretty sure that kind of thinking from Bob Carr, Gareth Evans etc is advocating - let's just give away our freedoms for the sake of a trade relationship with a dangerous, crazy autocracy already in the middle of destroying the remaining rule of law in Hong Kong.

Even the wealthy can find themselves imprisoned or under house arrest due to the unpredictable whims of the Party - Alibaba founder Jack Ma still hasn't been seen in public since his incredibly tepid criticism of the Chinese banking system late last year.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Straight from the Comitern - Nine/Fairfax:

China has taken the first formal step towards severing government ties with Australia after more than a year of incremental trade strikes, veiled threats from the Chinese embassy and escalating attacks by Chinese state media.

Beijing sent a message to Australia on Thursday that all dialogue at the political level will be cut off for years after the superpower’s top economic planner suspended the China-Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue.

The decision to indefinitely suspend what was once a key communication channel came two weeks after China’s Foreign Ministry said it would “respond firmly and forcefully” if the Morrison government did not reverse its decision to cancel Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement.

The rare public proclamation published on Beijing’s National Development and Reform Commission website and promoted widely by Chinese state media said Australia had launched measures to disrupt normal exchanges and co-operation “out of a Cold War mindset and ideological discrimination”. Chinese importers of Australian fruit, meat and honey have already dropped and decreased orders in anticipation of further deterioration in diplomatic relations. Thursday’s proclamation by the National Development and Reform Commission will result in many of those fears being realised as the Australian government urges industries to diversify away from Australia’s largest trading partner.

Cold War mind-set emanating from who? From the people unfairly blocking our exports from their markets for speaking out of turn... that's who. It might not be a 'hot war' but I'm pretty sure we're in for some sort of a 'cold war' from them as they've said themselves.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
So private individuals and companies can be given a free pass to bullybbut not countries. McDonald's has a turnover similar to PNGs GDP AFAIK so it's AOK for them but not for our northern neighbours to go swinging their weight around?

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