Future of math stations platforms 3 and 4

 
  bencdw2 Station Staff

So now that precisely 0 pak/cran services stop at these stations (and may never again), are they going to remove the PIDs (which are nowadays near useless, they can simply be replaced with a sign saying "no trains depart here, keep clear")
Also are the platforms going to be fenced off (potentially to increase line speed).

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  bencdw2 Station Staff

Note to moderator: somehow by accident 2 threads on the same topic were created. Could you please lock/delete one of them. Thanks
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I don't see anything wrong with that except emergency flexibility.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

For the time being they're still useful for when one of the track pairs is down for maintenance so that trains can still stop (a month or so ago, frankston trains were terminating at Caulfield, with Dandenong trains stopping at the MATH stations instead).

Long term, without doing the proper engineering calculations, I reckon you could squeeze two extra tracks between south yarra and caulfield if you removed the platforms right up to the station buildings. Will that ever happen? Probably not but it's one potential case for removing those platforms permanently.

On that note, been thinking about Caulfied station. Reckon they need to keep the station buildings as is, and create a new elevated station above it. At the current track level, create a public forecourt and remove the pedestrian underpass (now redundant). Elevated rail would more easily allow for cross platform interchange.

Moving further down the line, the CD9 stations need to be rebuilt so that the platforms are on the outside (2 side) as opposed to island. There is enough room in the middle of the two viaducts for two additional viaducts which can be used as an express track pair. This is how the stations should've always been built, not sure why they weren't. (I know why, 2 lifts instead of 4 being installed at each station, just don't think that reason justifies the current complexities).
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

So now that precisely 0 pak/cran services stop at these stations (and may never again), are they going to remove the PIDs (which are nowadays near useless, they can simply be replaced with a sign saying "no trains depart here, keep clear")
Also are the platforms going to be fenced off (potentially to increase line speed).
bencdw2
Why would you need to fence off a platform to increase line speed? Also how much faster than 80km/h would you want to go downhill into a blind curve to South Yarra?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Note to moderator: somehow by accident 2 threads on the same topic were created. Could you please lock/delete one of them. Thanks
bencdw2

This has been corrected.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Why would it be any different to what happens now?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
They're the future Rowville line platforms. Laughing
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Then the HCMTs will be bypassing them just because of platform length issue.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

what is a MATH station?
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

what is a MATH station?
Tii
The four stations between Caulfield and South Yarra.

Malvern
Armadale
Toorak
Hawksburn
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

what is a MATH station?
The four stations between Caulfield and South Yarra.

Malvern
Armadale
Toorak
Hawksburn
Djebel
Actually it only makes sense when you put it in a math equation:

Malvern + Armadale + Toorak + Hawksburn = MATH station

Wink Pure good mathematics
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Wish more of those intermediate stations elsewhere could be bypassed more often instead of only during peaks, but that would require the government to actually run more trains more often instead of just using it as a slogan for the useless Metro Tunnel that won't affect 80% of the network. Glares at Heatherdale, Mitcham, Nunawading, Blackburn, Laburnum, Mont Albert, Surrey Hills, Chatham, Canterbury, East Camberwell, Auburn, Glenferrie, Hawthorn, Burnley...
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Wish more of those intermediate stations elsewhere could be bypassed more often instead of only during peaks, but that would require the government to actually run more trains more often instead of just using it as a slogan for the useless Metro Tunnel that won't affect 80% of the network. Glares at Heatherdale, Mitcham, Nunawading, Blackburn, Laburnum, Mont Albert, Surrey Hills, Chatham, Canterbury, East Camberwell, Auburn, Glenferrie, Hawthorn, Burnley...
Heihachi_73
Nah @Heihachi, the services would run much better if they by-pass Ringwood Laughing.

I too would love a train to stop outside MY house, and express where I want to go. Not selfish at all !!

PS:  all morning UP Ringwood services, including off peak, run express(ish) after Blackburn. What are you complaining about ?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Generally speaking, AM off-peak Mon-Fri Belgrave & Lilydale trains run limited express between Richmond and Blackburn (preceded or followed by a Blackburn, sometimes Ringwood, stopping-all-stations), stopping at Glenferrie, Camberwell & Box Hill. They skip Laburnum, Mont Albert, Surrey Hills, Chatham, Canterbury, East Camberwell, Auburn, Hawthorn and Burnley.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There was talk of a turnback for Metro Tunnel at Hawksburn. VicSig's line guide shows a leading and a trailing crossover (both greyed-out) just west of Hawksburn on the local (Dandenong) lines. Presumably it will require platforms.



EDIT: This from Metro Tunnel’s Upgrades to the Rail Network webpage (February 2021):
“ At Hawksburn station, works to extend platforms and install additional infrastructure are ongoing.”
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Nah @Heihachi, the services would run much better if they by-pass Ringwood Laughing.

I too would love a train to stop outside MY house, and express where I want to go. Not selfish at all !!

PS:  all morning UP Ringwood services, including off peak, run express(ish) after Blackburn. What are you complaining about ?
justarider
Good thing I sometimes use Heatherdale or catch the 901 to Nunawading or Blackburn since it fills a bit of time, hate being stuck at Ringwood. Laughing

Unfortunately the expresses are all in bed asleep when I'm on the trains (late PM then first train back from FSS or wherever I have to walk to before the first Lilydale arrives because there's no Night Network during the week - walking is better than freezing your asre off for two and a half hours at Flinders Street), everything is stopping all stations except East Richmond for me.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

Wish more of those intermediate stations elsewhere could be bypassed more often instead of only during peaks, but that would require the government to actually run more trains more often instead of just using it as a slogan for the useless Metro Tunnel that won't affect 80% of the network. Glares at Heatherdale, Mitcham, Nunawading, Blackburn, Laburnum, Mont Albert, Surrey Hills, Chatham, Canterbury, East Camberwell, Auburn, Glenferrie, Hawthorn, Burnley...
Nah @Heihachi, the services would run much better if they by-pass Ringwood Laughing.

I too would love a train to stop outside MY house, and express where I want to go. Not selfish at all !!

PS:  all morning UP Ringwood services, including off peak, run express(ish) after Blackburn. What are you complaining about ?
justarider
At the moment we have:

Random Lilydale or Belgrave peaks which stops all stations, but also random Ringwood only trains which run express...Why not make the longer runs express???

Afternoon loop express trains with only 15 minutes to Glenferrie, it's at least 19 minutes!

Blackburns stop running in the middle of the day so all trains then have to stop all stations.

Blackburns should really be Box Hills so they don't delay the through trains in the double track section, and run all day so all Lilydale and Belgrave go express. The infrastructure is there, bloody well use it!

Alamein shuttles timetabled only 2 minutes away from Up or Down through trains which inevitably delays everything. Why not run them midway between the through trains so they're out of the way?

Off peak Glen Waverley trains (with heaps of timetable padding) get put 2 mins ahead of say a Belgrave (with no padding and more likely to be delayed somewhere) which then gets delayed through the loop.

Too many examples to list.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Wish more of those intermediate stations elsewhere could be bypassed more often ......
Blackburns stop running in the middle of the day so all trains then have to stop all stations.

Blackburns should really be Box Hills so they don't delay the through trains in the double track section, and run all day so all Lilydale and Belgrave go express. The infrastructure is there, bloody well use it!
Madjikthise
not quite. Blackburn SAS stop in the PM because Belgrave/Lilydale are already doing the SAS

Brilliant idea about Lilydale/Belgrave UP in the PM running express. Not.
That would be running UP the middle track, headlong into the afternoon DOWN express.

The infrastructure is being used, pretty much to capacity.
The TT does appear weird, yet there are a heck of a lot of trains going UP and DOWN getting into position.

Typical afternoon at Mont Albert (skip to 1 min)


https://youtu.be/So8Hl9MBGOE
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.................................

Brilliant idea about Lilydale/Belgrave UP in the PM running express. Not.
That would be running UP the middle track, headlong into the afternoon DOWN express.

...................................
justarider

Mon - Fri AM off-peak expresses run in both directions, the Downs sharing a single line with the stopping-all-stations. Using Blackburn rather than Box Hill improves express running by cutting out another station, ie Laburnum. Obviously, Blackburn has the required infrastructure for terminating SAS.

As an infrequent traveller from Mont Albert to Bayswater or Belgrave, the system seems to work fine, apart from the minor inconvenience off having to use the subway to interchange at Blackburn on Down trains. Similar inconvenience would apply at Box Hill.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
.................................

Brilliant idea about Lilydale/Belgrave UP in the PM running express. Not.
That would be running UP the middle track, headlong into the afternoon DOWN express.

...................................

Mon - Fri AM off-peak expresses run in both directions, the Downs sharing a single line with the stopping-all-stations. Using Blackburn rather than Box Hill improves express running by cutting out another station, ie Laburnum. Obviously, Blackburn has the required infrastructure for terminating SAS.

As an infrequent traveller from Mont Albert to Bayswater or Belgrave, the system seems to work fine, apart from the minor inconvenience off having to use the subway to interchange at Blackburn on Down trains. Similar inconvenience would apply at Box Hill.
kitchgp
yer but,

those morning down express aren't speedy.
Richmond to BoxHill 17 minutes, compared to the evening express, varies 13 (no intermediate stops-my favourites) to 15.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Reduces the Flinders Street - Belgrave stopping-all-stations time of 75 mins to 60 mins. However, getting off topic.
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria

Alamein shuttles timetabled only 2 minutes away from Up or Down through trains which inevitably delays everything. Why not run them midway between the through trains so they're out of the way?
Madjikthise

The reason why Up Alamein shuttles arrive 2 minutes before Up through trains from Belgrave/Lilydale is so that Alamein line passengers making a through trip into the City only have to wait 2 minutes at Camberwell to make their connection.

Your suggestion to make the Alamein shuttles arrive midway between the through trains would undoubtedly p*ss off all the Alamein line passengers (me included)!

Same reason why the Down Alamein shuttles depart 2 minutes after the Down through trains.

Ross
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner


The reason why Up Alamein shuttles arrive 2 minutes before Up through trains from Belgrave/Lilydale is so that Alamein line passengers making a through trip into the City only have to wait 2 minutes at Camberwell to make their connection.

Your suggestion to make the Alamein shuttles arrive midway between the through trains would undoubtedly p*ss off all the Alamein line passengers (me included)!

Same reason why the Down Alamein shuttles depart 2 minutes after the Down through trains.

Ross
Rossco T
Honestly they should just run Alamein trains into the city from first to last service. If they have the paths in peak, they have the paths outside of it too.

Same with running Blackburn local trains, not sure why they stop for 2 hours in the middle of the day. Timetable needs a rethink, and a massive a simplification (don't need every station past blackburn to have it's own unique express train).
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??

The reason why Up Alamein shuttles arrive 2 minutes before Up through trains from Belgrave/Lilydale is so that Alamein line passengers making a through trip into the City only have to wait 2 minutes at Camberwell to make their connection.

Your suggestion to make the Alamein shuttles arrive midway between the through trains would undoubtedly p*ss off all the Alamein line passengers (me included)!

Same reason why the Down Alamein shuttles depart 2 minutes after the Down through trains.

RossHonestly they should just run Alamein trains into the city from first to last service. If they have the paths in peak, they have the paths outside of it too.

Same with running Blackburn local trains, not sure why they stop for 2 hours in the middle of the day. Timetable needs a rethink, and a massive a simplification (don't r every station past blackburn to have it's own unique express train).
John.Z
I'm not sure where you get that locals stop running for 2 hours.

Take Chatham, can't be more "local". Who cares where the train originated?
After 10am, Up and Down train EVERY 15 minutes until after 8pm. With a few exras in between. Certainly no gaps.

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