Melbourne Airport Rail Link

 
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I watched those videos and I'm not impressed at the Sunshine Station one.

For starters, it looks like there won't be a platform for the SG line.

Considering the the North east has I think 10 passenger trains per day this does seem like an oversight.  This is the second time the station will be rebuilt without a SG platform.

Did it ever have one?
Yes.  Regularly used from 1963 to 1991.
...and then what happened ?
Tii
Its sole purpose was to allow passengers travelling on the on the Overland from Adelaide to transfer to the Sydney-bound Daylight. I expect that the stop didn't fit in with the replacement XPT's schedule.

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  8502 Chief Train Controller

I believe the omission of a Standard Gauge Platform for Sunshine to be a very large mistake.  Passengers for the airport from the North Eastern Line will not be able to transfer.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I watched those videos and I'm not impressed at the Sunshine Station one.

For starters, it looks like there won't be a platform for the SG line.

Considering the the North east has I think 10 passenger trains per day this does seem like an oversight.  This is the second time the station will be rebuilt without a SG platform.

Did it ever have one?
Yes.  Regularly used from 1963 to 1991.
...and then what happened ?

Yes what happened?

I am not entirely positive but believe the number of daily SG passenger trains via Sunshine would have been a lot less than today.
8502
the sg platform at Sunshine was used to do passenger interchange between the Uo Overland and the Down Intercapital Daylight, and in emergencies in the the case of late running of the Up Intercapital Daylight with the Down Overland.

The demise of usage of the sg platform at Sunshine would have been a combination of changing from loco hauled to XPT on the Sydney corridor with reduced travelling times and altered timetables meaning that both the Up & Down connections between The Overdue and Daylight XPT could be made at Southern Cross. At that time VLP Alburys were still on broad gauge, as the stamdradization of the Albury bg line is more recent thing around a decade or so ago.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
the sg platform at Sunshine was used to do passenger interchange between the Uo Overland and the Down Intercapital Daylight, and in emergencies in the the case of late running of the Up Intercapital Daylight with the Down Overland.

The demise of usage of the sg platform at Sunshine would have been a combination of changing from loco hauled to XPT on the Sydney corridor with reduced travelling times and altered timetables meaning that both the Up & Down connections between The Overdue and Daylight XPT could be made at Southern Cross. At that time VLP Alburys were still on broad gauge, as the stamdradization of the Albury bg line is more recent thing around a decade or so ago.
kuldalai
not to forget that The Overdue, after the 1995 SG conversion, does not go thru Sunshine at all.

VLP Albury recommenced as SG in 2011.
The Sunshine rebuild commencing 2012, inexplicably decided not to provide a platform for it.

Why still no provision in the pretty graphics is perplexing. The previous blurbs about Sunshine super hub clearly show Albury as a destination screen.

Anyhoo, there is now plenty of room at the new platforms for an SG deck to be added, sometime.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

If you look more closely at the concept art, looks like there is provision to turn the platform into an island platform, it's shown fenced off in the concept but looks like how Merinda Park station was that it could open up on the opposite side, maybe they are future proofing to duplicate the SG track at Sunshine.
  billjohnston Station Master

I lived near Sunshine and it was surprising how often the down Aurora was stopped at the Sunshine platform to detrain a passenger visitor who had not got off quick enough at Spencer Street.

Bill Johnston
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Not sure if an SG platform at Sunshine would get enough use to be worthwhile. Five trains per day in each direction. Airport passengers can take a bus from Broadmeadows. Granted there will be some passengers transferring to the Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/Sunbury lines, but will it really be enough to justify the cost?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
If you look more closely at the concept art, looks like there is provision to turn the platform into an island platform, it's shown fenced off in the concept but looks like how Merinda Park station was that it could open up on the opposite side, maybe they are future proofing to duplicate the SG track at Sunshine.
True Believers
A bit like P6 at Norf Melbourne which looks like it was built to be an island. V/Line services heading for 15/16 at Southern Cross anyone? But of course that was never part of the plan.......
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

Where is the provision for Melton electrification in the proposed Sunshine Station upgrade, and how Melton trains join MM1? The current track layout allows for trains from the Vline platforms 3 & 4 to join the MM1 track via a flat junction to the east of Sunshine Station. So Melton could be electrified by electrifying from the flat junction to platforms 3 & 4 then the current Vline tracks as far as Melton. However the flat junction would be problematic, taking capacity from both MM1 and the Regional Rail Link. I recall plans for this flat junction to be removed in the station upgrade.

I believe the best approach for Melton electification would be for new platforms 5 and 6 to the south of the existing station, leading to new tracks south of the exisiting Vline tracks beneath Anderson Road, after which it crosses beneath the Vline tracks west of Anderson Ave to then be on the north side of the Vline tracks. To the east of Sunshine Station, these tracks would have a bridge over the Vline tracks to join the MM1 tracks. The tender documents show a future single track, presumably for freight movements, to the south of the current station, but there appears to be no provision for it in the current plans. This freight bypass could also use the new tracks through platforms 5 and 6, because the Melton branch is unlikely to have a high frequency, because MM1 capacity has to be shared across the Airport, Sunbury and Melton.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Not sure if an SG platform at Sunshine would get enough use to be worthwhile. Five trains per day in each direction. Airport passengers can take a bus from Broadmeadows. Granted there will be some passengers transferring to the Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/Sunbury lines, but will it really be enough to justify the cost?
railblogger
For the umpteenth time I will again state why a standard gauge platform is essential at Sunshine for Albury & Wagga, Sydney passengers:

1. Albury line pax currently can change at Southern Cross for MTM trains to Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne.
BUT  once Metro tunnel opens in 2025 Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne trains will be in Metro tunnel and no longer accessible to Albury & Interstate pax at Southern Cross. So Albury pax need to be able to change to Metro tunnel trains at Sunshine to access  Dandenong, Pakenham and Cranbourne line trains.
2. Flow on side benefit from 2025 allows Albury pax to change for South Western, Western and Northern VLP trains at Sunshine saving 30 - 40 mins in going into Southern Cross only to come out again on a broad gauge train.
3. From Airport rail opening 2029 gives rail to rail connection at Sunshine to/from Melbourne Airport.  Much better than a crappy suburban bus connection from Broadmeadows.
4. Why should Albury line travellers be offered a second rate service compared to the other Inter City routes ?

Re-instatement of the former standard gauge platform at Sunshine is low cost, easily done and essential if Sunshine station is to be the super hub Government keeps crowing about.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I love that you think of the benefits but remember just because someone can do something does not mean they will.
  John E Locomotive Driver

Interesting points made about the SG platform at Sunshine. I agree that for 5 services a day it isn't worth the cost. Also the bus from Broadmeadows is pretty frequent and doesn't take that long. Or catch an uber/taxi - it won't cost much.
By the time you travel from broady to sunshine, switch platforms and catch the airport train, it's probably going to be about the same time as changing at broady.

Really the better solution should be to extend the airport line to broady (as part of SRL). Obviously different guages/power source may prevent this, which is frustrating because this would probably costs in the long run.

Also where is the airport line stabling going to be? I thought there might some space at Westmeadows, in which case you're halfway to Broadmeadows!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I love that you think of the benefits but remember just because someone can do something does not mean they will.
railblogger
Apropos of what?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Also where is the airport line stabling going to be? I thought there might some space at Westmeadows, in which case you're halfway to Broadmeadows!
John E

I reckon they might share the Calder Park stabling yard that's located past Sydenham, since it's a branch of the Sunbury line. Currently the Sunbury line upgrade is already expanding it. It could be expanded again when the Airport rail link comes into operation, plenty of room at Calder Park. The Cranbourne and Pakenham lines share the facility at Pakenham East.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Interesting points made about the SG platform at Sunshine. I agree that for 5 services a day it isn't worth the cost. Also the bus from Broadmeadows is pretty frequent and doesn't take that long. Or catch an uber/taxi - it won't cost much.
By the time you travel from broady to sunshine, switch platforms and catch the airport train, it's probably going to be about the same time as changing at broady.

Really the better solution should be to extend the airport line to broady (as part of SRL). Obviously different guages/power source may prevent this, which is frustrating because this would probably costs in the long run.

Also where is the airport line stabling going to be? I thought there might some space at Westmeadows, in which case you're halfway to Broadmeadows!
John E
Brisbane Airport Railway Station doesn't have any stabling stablings.

First trains for the day would be going to the Airport, not from there, the last train for the day will be departing the Airport.
  3088D Station Master

Not sure if an SG platform at Sunshine would get enough use to be worthwhile. Five trains per day in each direction. Airport passengers can take a bus from Broadmeadows. Granted there will be some passengers transferring to the Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/Sunbury lines, but will it really be enough to justify the cost?
For the umpteenth time I will again state why a standard gauge platform is essential at Sunshine for Albury & Wagga, Sydney passengers:

1. Albury line pax currently can change at Southern Cross for MTM trains to Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne.
BUT  once Metro tunnel opens in 2025 Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne trains will be in Metro tunnel and no longer accessible to Albury & Interstate pax at Southern Cross. So Albury pax need to be able to change to Metro tunnel trains at Sunshine to access  Dandenong, Pakenham and Cranbourne line trains.
2. Flow on side benefit from 2025 allows Albury pax to change for South Western, Western and Northern VLP trains at Sunshine saving 30 - 40 mins in going into Southern Cross only to come out again on a broad gauge train.
3. From Airport rail opening 2029 gives rail to rail connection at Sunshine to/from Melbourne Airport.  Much better than a crappy suburban bus connection from Broadmeadows.
4. Why should Albury line travellers be offered a second rate service compared to the other Inter City routes ?

Re-instatement of the former standard gauge platform at Sunshine is low cost, easily done and essential if Sunshine station is to be the super hub Government keeps crowing about.
kuldalai
All excellent points, importantly avoiding being Melbourne-centric with the potential to catch trains to other destinations via Sunshine: Geelong, Ballarat or (eventually) Bendigo for example.

Regardless of this good sense, the MARL website maintains the advice that to get to the airport Shepparton and NE line passengers can catch "a direct bus to Melbourne Airport from Broadmeadows" or "change trains at North Melbourne and then at Footscray or Sunshine for airport trains". It fails to mention the inward journey already taken through these stations. (See How will I catch public transport to the airport? at the foot of the main page).

This "direct bus" concept is also hazy. Is it a new express bus to meet the SG trains or is it the existing all stops 901 bus? While certainly not express the 901 can be said to be direct to the airport, although via its ten stops to Tulla in a 15 minute journey. My money is on the latter.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Not sure if an SG platform at Sunshine would get enough use to be worthwhile. Five trains per day in each direction. Airport passengers can take a bus from Broadmeadows. Granted there will be some passengers transferring to the Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/Sunbury lines, but will it really be enough to justify the cost?
For the umpteenth time I will again state why a standard gauge platform is essential at Sunshine for Albury & Wagga, Sydney passengers:

1. Albury line pax currently can change at Southern Cross for MTM trains to Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne.
BUT  once Metro tunnel opens in 2025 Dandenong, Pakenham & Cranbourne trains will be in Metro tunnel and no longer accessible to Albury & Interstate pax at Southern Cross. So Albury pax need to be able to change to Metro tunnel trains at Sunshine to access  Dandenong, Pakenham and Cranbourne line trains.
2. Flow on side benefit from 2025 allows Albury pax to change for South Western, Western and Northern VLP trains at Sunshine saving 30 - 40 mins in going into Southern Cross only to come out again on a broad gauge train.
3. From Airport rail opening 2029 gives rail to rail connection at Sunshine to/from Melbourne Airport.  Much better than a crappy suburban bus connection from Broadmeadows.
4. Why should Albury line travellers be offered a second rate service compared to the other Inter City routes ?

Re-instatement of the former standard gauge platform at Sunshine is low cost, easily done and essential if Sunshine station is to be the super hub Government keeps crowing about.
All excellent points, importantly avoiding being Melbourne-centric with the potential to catch trains to other destinations via Sunshine: Geelong, Ballarat or (eventually) Bendigo for example.

Regardless of this good sense, the MARL website maintains the advice that to get to the airport Shepparton and NE line passengers can catch "a direct bus to Melbourne Airport from Broadmeadows" or "change trains at North Melbourne and then at Footscray or Sunshine for airport trains". It fails to mention the inward journey already taken through these stations. (See How will I catch public transport to the airport? at the foot of the main page).

This "direct bus" concept is also hazy. Is it a new express bus to meet the SG trains or is it the existing all stops 901 bus? While certainly not express the 901 can be said to be direct to the airport, although via its ten stops to Tulla in a 15 minute journey. My money is on the latter.
3088D
I think it's the existing 901 bus

I love that you think of the benefits but remember just because someone can do something does not mean they will.
Apropos of what?
BrentonGolding
The benefits being stated.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I believe the omission of a Standard Gauge Platform for Sunshine to be a very large mistake.  Passengers for the airport from the North Eastern Line will not be able to transfer.
8502
pppppssssstttttttttttttt........................they can catch the 901 at Broadmeadows to the Airport..east and regular................................
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Is there space for an SG platform at a rebuilt sunshine station ?

Coming from the north east myself it has been inconvenient to not be able to get on or off at sunshine regardless of the airport line developments. Time for a letter to the ministers office ?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@trainbrain That would be fine if route 901 was like the SkyBus and served all termimals. But it does not. It terminates at that abomination of a bus terminal behind T4.

Getting from the bus to the train at Broady isnt exactly plain sailing either.

Michael
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I believe the omission of a Standard Gauge Platform for Sunshine to be a very large mistake.  Passengers for the airport from the North Eastern Line will not be able to transfer.
pppppssssstttttttttttttt........................they can catch the 901 at Broadmeadows to the Airport..east and regular................................
trainbrain
Regular during the day maybe. The 901 is useless at night and on Saturdays and Sundays.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

@trainbrain That would be fine if route 901 was like the SkyBus and served all termimals. But it does not. It terminates at that abomination of a bus terminal behind T4.

Getting from the bus to the train at Broady isnt exactly plain sailing either.

Michael
mejhammers1
well golly gee, allow more time..................
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I agree @trainbrain. I've walked from T3 to T4 before and it really doesn't take that long.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
@trainbrain That would be fine if route 901 was like the SkyBus and served all termimals. But it does not. It terminates at that abomination of a bus terminal behind T4.

Getting from the bus to the train at Broady isnt exactly plain sailing either.

Michael
mejhammers1
Melbourne Airport deliberately positioned the PTV Bus / Coach stops at the most remote part of Airport complex (publicly accessible by walkway)

The bus / coach stops could easily be at a much more convenient location (like the shuttle bus rank out the front) but Melbourne Airport doesn't get a cut out of any of the PTV services, so gives them the cold shoulder (they charge shuttle bus compaines something like $15 every time they enter the airport complex)

I recon It's a guarantee that there would be barrier gate surcharge at the proposed Airport Railway Station (as like Sydney and Brisbane)

Broadmeadows Railway Station Is functional for train / bus connections, though the subway Is outdated and could do with replacement with an overpass.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
@trainbrain That would be fine if route 901 was like the SkyBus and served all termimals. But it does not. It terminates at that abomination of a bus terminal behind T4.

Getting from the bus to the train at Broady isnt exactly plain sailing either.

Michael
Melbourne Airport deliberately positioned the PTV Bus / Coach stops at the most remote part of Airport complex (publicly accessible by walkway)

The bus / coach stops could easily be at a much more convenient location (like the shuttle bus rank out the front) but Melbourne Airport doesn't get a cut out of any of the PTV services, so gives them the cold shoulder (they charge shuttle bus compaines something like $15 every time they enter the airport complex)

I recon It's a guarantee that there would be barrier gate surcharge at the proposed Airport Railway Station (as like Sydney and Brisbane)

Broadmeadows Railway Station Is functional for train / bus connections, though the subway Is outdated and could do with replacement with an overpass.
Nightfire
We should not overlook that Airport Corp is a commercial business. They don't build anything without an eye on the financial return.

Hence
  • PTV got a very good deal when the Airport built the Bus bays at the new T4 car park.
    Parking for nothing.
  • Skybus contribute to repay the considerable expense of re-develop the fore-court to accommodate them.
    About 1 year's fees would have done it.
  • Airport Train station is being built by the Vic/Fed govts. AirRail were told "no thanks".
    It will be disingenuous of the Airport to charge for infrastructure they didn't build, on land they do not own.
    But they WILL try.

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