The corona virus COVID-19

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You've been busted trying to pass off errant nonsense as official scientific data. Busted badly,, as you usually are. Just admit you've made a fool of yourself and move on.
billybaxter
Again, Open VAERS is a synopsis because the actual VAERS system itself just provides the raw data as you probably would have noticed by now if you'd done a cursory search of its database - and they don't actually do a synopsis of their own data. Do you have any actual evidence that Open VAERS figures differ from the official VAERS figures? If not then I'd suggest you stick with Open VAERS figures which are derived directly from the data-set provided by CDC.

Sorry Billy but you got all excited there for a minute thinking you'd had a Don Dunstan GOTCHA moment (as many people on this board do) but it actually turned out you were wrong.

Again.

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You've posted wild hallucinogenic accusations from a splinter interest group, you've tried to mix VAERS and OpenVAERS figures. it's up to you to try and prove their validity, not us to disprove your turgid rambling nonsense.
billybaxter
And you thought you'd had a massive win at the pokies - only to realise that in reality you'd actually lost the power bill. Again.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Your lies and deception know no depths. That's OpenVAERS you linked to originally, not VAERS. A fringe single issue loony group, happy to try and trick people into thinking they're legitimate.Here are some links from the real VAERS, which you managed to link to in your second attempt.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
Oh my GOD! Busted by the same guy who thinks the Illuminati control the globe.

SO tell me Detective Billy (and this is a really important question), what is the difference between the figures reported on Open VAERS and the actual VAERS website?

Actual numbers please.
What's the difference, serious question, you compare covid-19 to just the mild "sniffles", well, if that's so, tell me why there are 62 people are in hospital at the moment, (it will get worse by the way) 18 of those are in the ICU, here's the answer kiddo... you don't get that with just the "sniffles"!
lsrailfan
Of course its just the bat sniffles but you're confusing that with people who may have been on their way to hospital anyway with complicating health issues (poorly controlled diabetes, heart disease, respiratory illnesses such as emphysema, morbid obesity etc) OR who may have their advanced age complicating their presentation. Many of the people who contract bat sniffles won't need to go anywhere near a hospital.

But if you do have a substantial complicating health issue then your GP (or the doctor as causality) can say "Let's get you admitted just to be on the safe side". And this by itself oesn't mean you're about to die from the bat sniffles now does it.

Same goes for the people in ICU, it's almost certainly some other problem on top of their bat sniffles that has put them in ICU, not just a presentation of bat sniffles ALONE.

Understand?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You've posted wild hallucinogenic accusations from a splinter interest group, you've tried to mix VAERS and OpenVAERS figures. it's up to you to try and prove their validity, not us to disprove your turgid rambling nonsense.
billybaxter
I've looked on the internet to see if there's an accusations about the group Open Data VAERS misrepresenting figures provided by the CDC and the VAERS HHS Agency itself but I haven't found anything about them being wrong or twisting data. There's no evidence either that they're necessarily an anti-vax type organisation despite that little bit of background information that you found.

What I did find was some articles that suggest the CDC data itself might not be accurate because the system was harvesting voluntary (sometimes unverified) data and not necessarily giving an accurate picture - but that's an altogether different argument as to whether or not Open Data VAERS is correctly representing the CDC/VAERS database.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Your lies and deception know no depths. That's OpenVAERS you linked to originally, not VAERS. A fringe single issue loony group, happy to try and trick people into thinking they're legitimate.Here are some links from the real VAERS, which you managed to link to in your second attempt.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
Oh my GOD! Busted by the same guy who thinks the Illuminati control the globe.

SO tell me Detective Billy (and this is a really important question), what is the difference between the figures reported on Open VAERS and the actual VAERS website?

Actual numbers please.
What's the difference, serious question, you compare covid-19 to just the mild "sniffles", well, if that's so, tell me why there are 62 people are in hospital at the moment, (it will get worse by the way) 18 of those are in the ICU, here's the answer kiddo... you don't get that with just the "sniffles"!
Of course its just the bat sniffles but you're confusing that with people who may have been on their way to hospital anyway with complicating health issues (poorly controlled diabetes, heart disease, respiratory illnesses such as emphysema, morbid obesity etc) OR who may have their advanced age complicating their presentation. Many of the people who contract bat sniffles won't need to go anywhere near a hospital.

But if you do have a substantial complicating health issue then your GP (or the doctor as causality) can say "Let's get you admitted just to be on the safe side". And this by itself oesn't mean you're about to die from the bat sniffles now does it.

Same goes for the people in ICU, it's almost certainly some other problem on top of their bat sniffles that has put them in ICU, not just a presentation of bat sniffles ALONE.

Understand?
don_dunstan
We disagree on that point and I won't bother with it anymore, one thing I will agree with you on is the "effectiveness" of that ad on T.V showing in Sydney, people have already likely by now made up their minds on the vaccinations, this will push these who are against the vaccinations much further away than they are now, because as has been stated by many media people, ( I think you said so), why is she gasping for air on Oxygen, why is she alone in the ICU unit, there will be constant care in the ICU, a lot of people will see this as over the top and dramatic.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
We disagree on that point and I won't bother with it anymore, one thing I will agree with you on is the "effectiveness" of that ad on T.V showing in Sydney, people have already likely by now made up their minds on the vaccinations, this will push these who are against the vaccinations much further away than they are now, because as has been stated by many media people, ( I think you said so), why is she gasping for air on Oxygen, why is she alone in the ICU unit, there will be constant care in the ICU, a lot of people will see this as over the top and dramatic.
lsrailfan
People you meet are usually either really terrified by the prospect of getting it (the 38% that think they'll definitely die if they get the Delta variant for instance) or they don't care about it at all and think they won't even get sick. And if you're young and healthy then the evidence says that's pretty much true.

And you're right, shock campaigns don't really work. I read an evaluation a while back of the TAC (Victoria) and their shock/horror campaigns they've been running since the late eighties and it was saying that on the whole the public tend to tune that stuff out because they don't like the deliberately gory nature of the ads and they don't think it applies to them anyway.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
One of my predictions has come through only hours after making it - the Delta variant does indeed have the ability to see around corners and through walls... AND it can read minds (which I thought only the Lambda version could do!). This today from NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard - ABC:

It is effectively using family and friends to betray other family and friends by getting the virus into those households. Please be aware right now, Fairfield is the target of this virus in particular. Make sure, through every measure, you avoid passing it onto your family, your friends. The only measure that will work is to stay at home. Just stay at home!

Wow it manipulates minds to get people to betray each other... its a very crafty and clever virus isn't it.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

[size=2][font=Times New Roman][color=#0f1419][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,][b][color=#0f1419][size=2][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,]From twitter[/b][/font][/color]

[color=#0f1419][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,][b][color=#0f1419][size=2][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,]                       Stephen Jones MP[/font][/size][/color][/b][/font][/color]


[color=#536471][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,][color=#536471][size=2][font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,]@StephenJonesMP[/font][/size][/color][/font][/color][/font][/size]

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Morrison takes credit after Rudd fixes up his Pfizer mess. Incredible story. He’s always there for trophy night but never for game day.

And all because Liberal MP Dave Sharma is tied up with Astra-Zeneca. Got to keep their mates happy even at the expense of the rest of the country.

In fact, Sharma only recently posted (and then deleted) a couple of tweets falsely denouncing the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine. Oh I wonder why... /sarcasm.
I'm calling BS on that story about Pfizer anf Fed govt

1) The information is written as coming from someone who knows someone who wants to remain annoymous, why?

2) It says Australia should have spoken to Pfizer to speed up deliveries. Hears a thought, there are 200 govts in the world representing 7B people, half of which are trying to do just that against a single company with has previously posted numerous times production limited capacity and slow rate of ability to expand due to complex nature of vaccine and has resisted all attempts to off-shore manufacture.

3) Why should the Leader of the country need to talk to the CEO to get greater influence to force them to change or do something differently for this context. Surely both have better things to do and simply leave that to their delegates.

4) Israel got in first, pain a huge fee for the Pfizer vaccine using US money when the vaccine wasn't fully approved because they had a major problem. Israel has had over 6000 people die, they had nothing to loose. Where as Aust and NZ with minimal infections and deaths had the one thing Israel didn't have, time!

5) Yes Australia focused on AZ as the primary vaccine with Pfizer as a lessor 2nd option. At the time AZ was yes cheaper and could easily be made onshore, production ramp up is faster and easier to transport to rural Australia. Logistically it made alot more sense. The proof is in the pudding as NZ which only choose Pfizer is still way behind Australia in vaccination role out.

6) As for Dave Sharma, show us the posts on his comments towards AZ?

7) Dave Shamra invested in CSL, big deal. Most Australian's have indirect and direct investments in CSL including me and yes I only invested after the CV-19 outbreak based on CSL longterm history of capital growth. And most like me have made ZERO return from CSL shares in the last 12mths as CSL went backwarks and worth less today than 12mth ago with the share price peaking in Feb 2020. So much for Sharma's so called tied up links?

8) As for Rudd coming in to save the day,

A spokesperson for Pfizer in Australia says reports suggesting any third party or individual had a role in "contractual agreements reached between Pfizer and the Australian Government" were "inaccurate".
All discussions on supply and procurement with the federal government were led by Pfizer representatives in Australia, the spokesperson said.
Pfizer had a strong relationship with the federal government, with continuous engagement both locally and globally in support of the national vaccine program, including supply requests, the person said.

At US$ 20/dose x 20 million doses = US$ 400m, no twice failed former PM is going to have authority to interfer with a contract between Pfizer and Fed Govt of anywhere near this value unless specfically delegated by the govt to do so. Pfizer's own statement above also seems to reject most of the claims made by the so called internal man on the ground who wishes to remain anoymous yet seems to know all.

Also worth noting that the American's have only allowed limited off-shoring of their Moderna vaccine until such a time that every American who wanted a dose was able to get one.
RTT_Rules

3) Why should the Leader of the country need to talk to the CEO to get greater influence to force them to change or do something differently for this context. Surely both have better things to do and simply leave that to their delegates.

Phone calls, influence and context.

  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
RTT  
 I'm calling BS on that story about Pfizer anf Fed govt





Of course you would.And you would be wrong.

As for the AZ thing, the head honcho of AZ in aust is a former lobbyist and state Liberal higher up. And with this corrupt mob in charge, it would be a case of we'll give you a great big fat contract in exchange for a great big fat donation. Ever wondered why after two years, the election promise of a federal corruption body hasn't materialized. The majority of the population living here know why, even though a lot wouldn't admit it
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/08/good-grief-morrisons-vaccine-an-inside-job/
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
You've been busted trying to pass off errant nonsense as official scientific data. Busted badly,, as you usually are. Just admit you've made a fool of yourself and move on.
billybaxter

Perhaps you'd be better off not engaging with this contributor. It's a constantly moving target and after a while you realise you have better things to do...

Then there are the inane, totally off subject and condescending replies to make that contributor feel they 'won' the discussion. The above 'my boy' remarks etc.

Mike.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I'm calling BS on that story about Pfizer and Fed govt
RTT_Rules

I'm not.

I don't really care why, but to be (by a long way) 39/39 in the OECD for vaccine procurement doesn't happen in a bubble.  Further, it's all but impossible to argue this without making a partisan political point (but I'm going to try).

Even now, the Fed Gvt are *still* not attempting anything to redr4ess the issue - and it would seem have tried to establish a relationship with the large pharmaceutical companies like we have with the PRC.

Whatever people might think of Rudd and his enormous ego, there is no reason to doubt his actions were prompted by frustrated senior business leaders concerned about the impact of Australia's non-vaccination program.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories.  I think the bottom line is - in his heart of hearts - our Prime Minister is a Pentecostal anti-vaccer.  He doesn't believe it beyond the placebo effect it has on the masses, just another form of marketing.  He would never say that publicly of course (has to run it past a focus group), but that's where we are.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I'm calling BS on that story about Pfizer and Fed govt
djf01

Don't listen to K Rudd (I don't).  But the former head of Pfizer Global?

There is one, and only one, reason we have inadequate vaccine supply in Australia - the Fed Gvt chose it.  
IMHO they deserve baseball bats for it, whatever f**ing party they are from.

  wobert Chief Commissioner
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
On Micks post, the Laura Tingle (should be AO) bit is really enjoyable as she enviscerates  the Truculent Runt and Morrison. That'll teach Morrison to drop a bucket on her as he did at the National Press Club a few months back.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
NSW records 89 new cases in the past 24 hours.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You've been busted trying to pass off errant nonsense as official scientific data. Busted badly,, as you usually are. Just admit you've made a fool of yourself and move on.

Perhaps you'd be better off not engaging with this contributor. It's a constantly moving target and after a while you realise you have better things to do...

Then there are the inane, totally off subject and condescending replies to make that contributor feel they 'won' the discussion. The above 'my boy' remarks etc.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Here you are yet again telling other people that they shouldn't interact with me because that's what YOU want.

Face it, Mike, you're obsessional and dictatorial.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Nick Carter in the Australian on the weekend comparing the South Australian government's handling of an influenza epidemic in 2019 with the COVID19 response now:

Two years ago, influenza A was ripping through South Australia. By early July 2019, 20,000 South Australians had tested positive to the virus and 86 nursing homes were infected. Perhaps the Premier and his chief health officer were asleep at the wheel a few months earlier when the warnings came that it was going to be a shocker of a flu season. Think of the lives that might have been saved if Steven Marshall had slammed the borders shut, frightened everyone witless and warned them they would be arrested if they stepped outside their own homes.

On July 7, 2019, 37 new flu deaths were announced in South Australia, bringing the total to 82. The state’s chief public health officer, Nicola Spurrier, called a press conference to remind South Australians to wash their hands and cough into their elbows if they were caught without a tissue. “It’s very unfortunate to see this number of people that have died,” she said, “however, the influenza virus this year is not considered to be any more deadly than the viruses in the past.”

The killer flu of 2019 claimed more than 800 lives in Australia, most of them elderly and most in nursing homes. Yet the authorities refrained from panic. There were no daily press conferences and no breathless reporting of the latest number of infections, which in NSW alone were averaging 826 a day in the first two weeks of July.

So why was it okay to let influenza kill 82 people but not one single COVID19 death is acceptable to the Chief Health Officer? Why the double standard?
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Nick Carter in the Australian on the weekend comparing the South Australian government's handling of an influenza epidemic in 2019 with the COVID19 response now:

Two years ago, influenza A was ripping through South Australia. By early July 2019, 20,000 South Australians had tested positive to the virus and 86 nursing homes were infected. Perhaps the Premier and his chief health officer were asleep at the wheel a few months earlier when the warnings came that it was going to be a shocker of a flu season. Think of the lives that might have been saved if Steven Marshall had slammed the borders shut, frightened everyone witless and warned them they would be arrested if they stepped outside their own homes.

On July 7, 2019, 37 new flu deaths were announced in South Australia, bringing the total to 82. The state’s chief public health officer, Nicola Spurrier, called a press conference to remind South Australians to wash their hands and cough into their elbows if they were caught without a tissue. “It’s very unfortunate to see this number of people that have died,” she said, “however, the influenza virus this year is not considered to be any more deadly than the viruses in the past.”

The killer flu of 2019 claimed more than 800 lives in Australia, most of them elderly and most in nursing homes. Yet the authorities refrained from panic. There were no daily press conferences and no breathless reporting of the latest number of infections, which in NSW alone were averaging 826 a day in the first two weeks of July.

So why was it okay to let influenza kill 82 people but not one single COVID19 death is acceptable to the Chief Health Officer? Why the double standard?
don_dunstan
because Covid is not the flu, that's why.
  303gunner Train Controller

..... comparing the South Australian government's handling of an influenza epidemic in 2019 with the COVID19 response now:

Two years ago, influenza A was ripping through South Australia. By early July 2019, 20,000 South Australians had tested positive to the virus and 86 nursing homes were infected.

On July 7, 2019, 37 new flu deaths were announced in South Australia, bringing the total to 82. The state’s chief public health officer, Nicola Spurrier, called a press conference “It’s very unfortunate to see this number of people that have died,” she said, “however, the influenza virus this year is not considered to be any more deadly than the viruses in the past.”

The killer flu of 2019 claimed more than 800 lives in Australia, most of them elderly and most in nursing homes. Yet the authorities refrained from panic. There were no daily press conferences and no breathless reporting of the latest number of infections, which in NSW alone were averaging 826 a day in the first two weeks of July.

So why was it okay to let influenza kill 82 people but not one single COVID19 death is acceptable to the Chief Health Officer? Why the double standard?
don_dunstan
I don't think that the CHO thought the deaths were OK, how do you read that from her comments? Do you think she let 82 people die?

What she did say was that a case load of 20,000 cases is "ripping through" the State, and that 82 deaths from that number is about average for Influenza A.

With COVID, we have had 31,224 cases in Aust (so far), leading to 911 deaths, a death rate 8 times higher than Influenza A. Not quite the same as the Flu.
  303gunner Train Controller

..... comparing the South Australian government's handling of an influenza epidemic in 2019 with the COVID19 response now:

Two years ago, influenza A was ripping through South Australia. By early July 2019, 20,000 South Australians had tested positive to the virus and 86 nursing homes were infected.

On July 7, 2019, 37 new flu deaths were announced in South Australia, bringing the total to 82. The state’s chief public health officer, Nicola Spurrier, called a press conference “It’s very unfortunate to see this number of people that have died,” she said, “however, the influenza virus this year is not considered to be any more deadly than the viruses in the past.”

The killer flu of 2019 claimed more than 800 lives in Australia, most of them elderly and most in nursing homes. Yet the authorities refrained from panic. There were no daily press conferences and no breathless reporting of the latest number of infections, which in NSW alone were averaging 826 a day in the first two weeks of July.

So why was it okay to let influenza kill 82 people but not one single COVID19 death is acceptable to the Chief Health Officer? Why the double standard?
I don't think that the CHO thought the deaths were OK, how do you read that from her comments? Do you think she let 82 people die?

What she did say was that a case load of 20,000 cases is "ripping through" the State, and that 82 deaths from that number is about average for Influenza A.

With COVID, we have had 31,224 cases in Aust (so far), leading to 911 deaths, a death rate 8 times higher than Influenza A. Not quite the same as the Flu.
  Brianr Deputy Commissioner

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
e.

Anyway Pfizer isn't significantly better or worse than Astra Zenica as far as I know - nearly 6,000 dead in the USA from Pfizer's vaccine and that's just the ones that are 'official'.
You do not report accurately. My Bold
"
  • Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 331 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 6, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 5,946 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the [color=#075290]J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS[/color], a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

..... comparing the South Australian government's handling of an influenza epidemic in 2019 with the COVID19 response now:

Two years ago, influenza A was ripping through South Australia. By early July 2019, 20,000 South Australians had tested positive to the virus and 86 nursing homes were infected.

On July 7, 2019, 37 new flu deaths were announced in South Australia, bringing the total to 82. The state’s chief public health officer, Nicola Spurrier, called a press conference “It’s very unfortunate to see this number of people that have died,” she said, “however, the influenza virus this year is not considered to be any more deadly than the viruses in the past.”

The killer flu of 2019 claimed more than 800 lives in Australia, most of them elderly and most in nursing homes. Yet the authorities refrained from panic. There were no daily press conferences and no breathless reporting of the latest number of infections, which in NSW alone were averaging 826 a day in the first two weeks of July.

So why was it okay to let influenza kill 82 people but not one single COVID19 death is acceptable to the Chief Health Officer? Why the double standard?
I don't think that the CHO thought the deaths were OK, how do you read that from her comments? Do you think she let 82 people die?

What she did say was that a case load of 20,000 cases is "ripping through" the State, and that 82 deaths from that number is about average for Influenza A.

With COVID, we have had 31,224 cases in Aust (so far), leading to 911 deaths, a death rate 8 times higher than Influenza A. Not quite the same as the Flu.
303gunner
And that is a rate 8 times worse than a particularly bad year for Influenza deaths in Australia, not an average year.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Just as an aside, there are some in the ICU in NSW with NO UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS!  Again this busts the myth spread by Don Dunstan that you will only end up the ICU with a complex co-morbidity.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I don't think that the CHO thought the deaths were OK, how do you read that from her comments? Do you think she let 82 people die?

What she did say was that a case load of 20,000 cases is "ripping through" the State, and that 82 deaths from that number is about average for Influenza A.

With COVID, we have had 31,224 cases in Aust (so far), leading to 911 deaths, a death rate 8 times higher than Influenza A. Not quite the same as the Flu.
303gunner
Not quite the same but of course the death rate is going to be really high until we achieve some kind of herd immunity as we have with lots of similar illnesses.

Influenza does the regular rounds of the globe and does it regular sweep though Australia and Aussie workplaces, schools, hospitals and nursing homes and the Grim Reaper is usually very busy on his moped - especially in the winter months when its cool and humid. I think the estimated deaths figure cited in that article is extremely low because it's the complications that flu causes (usually pneumonia) that actually does the killing, usually not the actual flu itself. All round its really incredibly bad news especially if you're old or already have respiratory illness -

Yet nobody talks about shutting down any and all social movements throughout the state/nation when flu is on the rampage. Why? Probably because its felt we're doing everything we can to prevent the illness within reason and there's no need to go to that extent on account of common flu. I would postulate if that if COVID 19 were let rip now in Australia with most over 70's now vaccinated we'd probably achieve the same sorts of death numbers as we would from flu within a few years.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be condemned on this board for taking that attitude but my guess is that this will have to be the path within a few years, people will change their minds about how it should be managed - eventually - and it'll be treated the same as the other common viruses.

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