The Aussie political economy -

 
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Yep this has pissed me off. I guess I wont be voting in the next federal election. I don't believe in anything at the federal level anymore.

The federal ALP needs to have a clean out and start again. They are currently chasing both the inner city lefty green/champagne socialist vote and losing to the Greens anyway or they are sucking up to the center-right grey/property owning vote...who vote liberal anyway.

They have no identity and no idea of what they believe in or who they want to represent. They are totally reactive to the polls of the day and blame the media every time they lose a poll despite the media being very left bias.

I dislike the Greens intensely, but at lease they have principals and a set of fundamental policies and a core ideology, as flawed as they are.
Mr. Lane
I'm sick of drawing giant d%cks on the ballot form too, but the ALP has to at least try to be electable instead of being LNP Lite. Does anyone seriously want Barnaby Joyce running the country after Scummo stands down?

Edited just in case future Australia doesn't allow freedom of speech in regards to politics.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I'm sick of drawing giant d%cks on the ballot form too
"Heihachi_73"
Good. Unless there's a dispute after the count, only the polling booth staff and the scrutineers see them anyway, so it's a complete waste of time.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
So is a blank form, but unfortunately it's illegal in Australia to not participate in voting once you're enrolled to vote. Technically I can just walk up, get my name ticked off and leave too but there's no fun in that.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Yep this has pissed me off. I guess I wont be voting in the next federal election. I don't believe in anything at the federal level anymore.

The federal ALP needs to have a clean out and start again. They are currently chasing both the inner city lefty green/champagne socialist vote and losing to the Greens anyway or they are sucking up to the center-right grey/property owning vote...who vote liberal anyway.

They have no identity and no idea of what they believe in or who they want to represent. They are totally reactive to the polls of the day and blame the media every time they lose a poll despite the media being very left bias.

I dislike the Greens intensely, but at lease they have principals and a set of fundamental policies and a core ideology, as flawed as they are.
Mr. Lane
I really don't understand why the young aren't out there like French farmers trying to smash the joint up - the youth of today are robots, they just have no concept of how badly they've been dealt out of economic participation in this country.

Menzies was practically a socialist in this regard; he sank huge amounts of money into building houses post-war and forced the banks to lend to working class people. By the time he left office we had the highest home ownership rate in the world. Imagine a government today giving a damn about making housing affordable for kids leaving school - if anything both the LNP and the ALP have been trying to do the opposite because they've all got a vested interest in keeping it unaffordable.

Add to that the future bill for dealing with COVID19 which is also not a young person problem and you've surely got a recipe for the poisoned generational challis.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Afterpay was sold by its Australian inventors to an American investor (Twitter founder Jack Dorsey's Square) for an eye-watering $39,000,000,000.

Interesting thing about Afterpay: One in five people who use it get into trouble with it; but it seems you can never go broke from finding new ways to bury young Australians in debt... From the Financial Review;

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission found one in five buy now, pay later users is missing payments, half of users aged between 18 to 29 cut back on essential items to make repayments, and more than 1.1 million transactions in 2019 incurred multiple missed payment fees.

It also warned 15 per cent of users, and half under 29, had taken out an additional loan to pay for the services, while 55 per cent of consumers paying late had used at least two different buy now, pay later providers in the past six months.


  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

23, Mr Speakers in smirko’s first response in QT.
Operation COVID shield,,,, it’s nauseating. Going for a walk.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Grace drops a well deserved bucket on Australias number 1 liar/a hole

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/porter-s-elevation-betrays-pm-s-chilling-apathy-towards-survivors-20210803-p58feo.html

Interesting to see if the usual old fat white RWNJ have a crack at her. My monies  on Grace.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

He has my sympathy this fella.
Vaccination figures going OK, no mention of General Frewan.
Vaccination hiccups, General Frewan is managing those issues.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
A good read.

https://aliensideboob.substack.com/p/is-slomo-a-liar-or-a-smeg?r=2exjx&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter
michaelgm
The Labor Party lost the 2019 election on the basis of the fact that they were going to close most of the coal mining in QLD and NSW; that's despite the fact that India and China are not signing on to any emissions targets any more. So the sacrifice of mining jobs is for no purpose whatsoever.

The LNP might be moderately corrupt but at least they're not working hard to destroy jobs in regional Australia for no reason whatsoever.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Jobs that are stuck in the early 20th century with no future. I'm sure the highly-qualified miners and construction workers in the middle of nowhere can do something else equally useful there with their Tonka trucks, such as building new cities, building high speed rail, creating housing and making the smaller cities larger instead of allowing the federal government to let population spiral out of control all concentrated in about half a dozen capital cities while housing stock and service levels remain virtually untouched for close to a century.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Jobs that are stuck in the early 20th century with no future. I'm sure the highly-qualified miners and construction workers in the middle of nowhere can do something else equally useful there with their Tonka trucks, such as building new cities, building high speed rail, creating housing and making the smaller cities larger instead of allowing the federal government to let population spiral out of control all concentrated in about half a dozen capital cities while housing stock and service levels remain virtually untouched for close to a century.
Heihachi_73
As I recall it was that 'your jobs are doomed anyway' attitude that lost Labor the last election. And their jobs aren't doomed, we're selling more coal than ever to India and China ($54 billion last year), and neither of those countries are going to sign the Glasgow Convention on Climate Change later this year so our continued export of coal is guaranteed. Not allowed to burn it ourselves here though because for some reason that's contributing to climate change - but apparently burning it off-shore is okay.

And your decentralisation rant is just p*ssing into the wind, every government state and federal has been trying to get population back into the countryside but the reality is that the jobs and opportunities are in the capitals and large regional centers which is why people (particularly the young) want to live there. That will likely never, ever change.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Population spiralling out of control?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Population spiralling out of control?
"billybaxter"
Possibly. Population explosions are caused by a large number of small bangs.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Well yes, I've heard that many women do complain of that once the wedding ring is on, but not my darling, even after 40 years of wedded bliss. That poster who complains about lack of housing stock should come out my way. Used to be beautiful market farms, now pathetic million dollar houses that look warn and dated within 2 years of construction. It's a monstrosity. Certainly not an explosion though. Oh it makes me laugh when jokers talk about Australia being overpopulated.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Lots of doom and gloom in other threads, something lighter. And correct.
Anything that may implicate incompetence, is confidential.


  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well yes, I've heard that many women do complain of that once the wedding ring is on, but not my darling, even after 40 years of wedded bliss. That poster who complains about lack of housing stock should come out my way. Used to be beautiful market farms, now pathetic million dollar houses that look warn and dated within 2 years of construction. It's a monstrosity. Certainly not an explosion though. Oh it makes me laugh when jokers talk about Australia being overpopulated.
billybaxter
Nice

I don't think the country is over populated either (yet, but getting there) but it is very focused in a few locations and that the growth rate was too high for services to keep up and I do agree with Don's comment that past govts have tried to grow the country more evenly but never been successful. I know people who got their PR for say SA for which they are morally required to stay for 2y, then on arrival move to Vic usually for work.  The only lever the govt has to try and discourage is welfare.

Personally I'd like to see the growth held at 150,000 per year total growth after factoring in births, deaths, arrivals and departures  until 30m (estimated to take around ~23 years) then slowed to 100,000 per year until 35m (~50 years) at which point the immigration is simply balance against desparity between births and deaths. Also this time frame pushes us to the last Qtr of the 21st century and this is when the world's population will be in decline.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I don't think it matters. A bloke has been charged and is due to face court; that must take precedence over everything else. Any parliamentary enquiry is likely to be as useful as a hat rack is to a reindeer.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Yep this has pissed me off. I guess I wont be voting in the next federal election. I don't believe in anything at the federal level anymore.

The federal ALP needs to have a clean out and start again. They are currently chasing both the inner city lefty green/champagne socialist vote and losing to the Greens anyway or they are sucking up to the center-right grey/property owning vote...who vote liberal anyway.

They have no identity and no idea of what they believe in or who they want to represent. They are totally reactive to the polls of the day and blame the media every time they lose a poll despite the media being very left bias.

I dislike the Greens intensely, but at lease they have principals and a set of fundamental policies and a core ideology, as flawed as they are.
I really don't understand why the young aren't out there like French farmers trying to smash the joint up - the youth of today are robots, they just have no concept of how badly they've been dealt out of economic participation in this country.

Menzies was practically a socialist in this regard; he sank huge amounts of money into building houses post-war and forced the banks to lend to working class people. By the time he left office we had the highest home ownership rate in the world. Imagine a government today giving a damn about making housing affordable for kids leaving school - if anything both the LNP and the ALP have been trying to do the opposite because they've all got a vested interest in keeping it unaffordable.

Add to that the future bill for dealing with COVID19 which is also not a young person problem and you've surely got a recipe for the poisoned generational challis.
don_dunstan
There has been a seismic shift in societies expectations since the days of Menzies and when the Boomers were young.

  • Far, far less people marry and have kids in their 20s, often putting it off until 35+
  • More and more people opt out of following the trajectory of school -> move out -> marry -> have kids
  • Living at home with the parents is now an expectation, even into their 40s for some people
  • Gen X was probably the last generation to expect stable full time work, now work is treated as something transient.


Not all young people have a tough life necessarily, especially when living at home rent free (no one I know was charged board except me...) with the expectation they will simply inherit a house...especially if their boomer parents own more than one home. I know several families with retired parents and adult kids in the house where the parents have two properties valued over $1 million but their kids will never afford any property at all. The kids will simply get these when the parents pass on.

Housing is becoming an intergenerational asset, not something that you buy. The only way out of this is if Australians give up the quarter acre block and detached home and start living in small apartments.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Well yes, I've heard that many women do complain of that once the wedding ring is on, but not my darling, even after 40 years of wedded bliss. That poster who complains about lack of housing stock should come out my way. Used to be beautiful market farms, now pathetic million dollar houses that look warn and dated within 2 years of construction. It's a monstrosity. Certainly not an explosion though. Oh it makes me laugh when jokers talk about Australia being overpopulated.
Nice

I don't think the country is over populated either (yet, but getting there) but it is very focused in a few locations and that the growth rate was too high for services to keep up and I do agree with Don's comment that past govts have tried to grow the country more evenly but never been successful. I know people who got their PR for say SA for which they are morally required to stay for 2y, then on arrival move to Vic usually for work.  The only lever the govt has to try and discourage is welfare.

Personally I'd like to see the growth held at 150,000 per year total growth after factoring in births, deaths, arrivals and departures  until 30m (estimated to take around ~23 years) then slowed to 100,000 per year until 35m (~50 years) at which point the immigration is simply balance against desparity between births and deaths. Also this time frame pushes us to the last Qtr of the 21st century and this is when the world's population will be in decline.
RTT_Rules
150,000 is too high. The immigration rate has been too high since the mid 90s.

Most of those people end up in Melbourne and Sydney and both cities are worse for it. Sydney is crammed and Melbourne is sprawling uncontrolled.

All we are doing is sustaining population Ponzi growth and supressing wages. Despite claims to the contrary Japan is doing fine with a declining population.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
There has been a seismic shift in societies expectations since the days of Menzies and when the Boomers were young.

  • Far, far less people marry and have kids in their 20s, often putting it off until 35+
  • More and more people opt out of following the trajectory of school -> move out -> marry -> have kids
  • Living at home with the parents is now an expectation, even into their 40s for some people
  • Gen X was probably the last generation to expect stable full time work, now work is treated as something transient.


Not all young people have a tough life necessarily, especially when living at home rent free (no one I know was charged board except me...) with the expectation they will simply inherit a house...especially if their boomer parents own more than one home. I know several families with retired parents and adult kids in the house where the parents have two properties valued over $1 million but their kids will never afford any property at all. The kids will simply get these when the parents pass on.

Housing is becoming an intergenerational asset, not something that you buy. The only way out of this is if Australians give up the quarter acre block and detached home and start living in small apartments.
Mr. Lane
Ridiculous that in a country the size of Australia the only option for the young is to live in shoe-boxes. It's a policy planning outcome failure on every single level of government.

This policy of protecting asset holders at the expense of everything else is continuing to lock out the young from being able to participate in the economic life of this country and it will have diabolical consequences further down the track when the taxation base is expected to support Medicare and Centrelink for the millions of aged pensioners relying on it. It's the opposite of what Menzies wanted when he said that the only way to head of civil unrest was to include the young in home-ownership as a way of enfranchising them into the future of the country. Now-days if you're young and working class you've got almost no hope of ever getting out of your poverty trap.

I'm honestly not expecting Centrelink and Medicare to exist in their current forms by the time I retire, I really don't think either of those programs is sustainable for Australia going into this century especially not with the debt burden being increased radically by COVID19. It'll be user-pays everything.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Housing is becoming an intergenerational asset, not something that you buy. The only way out of this is if Australians give up the quarter acre block and detached home and start living in small apartments.
Ridiculous that in a country the size of Australia the only option for the young is to live in shoe-boxes. It's a policy planning outcome failure on every single level of government.

This policy of protecting asset holders at the expense of everything else is continuing to lock out the young from being able to participate in the economic life of this country and it will have diabolical consequences further down the track when the taxation base is expected to support Medicare and Centrelink for the millions of aged pensioners relying on it.
don_dunstan
Agreed. I think there are a few things here:

  • Boomers and War Babies are living much longer than previous generations and tying up enormous tracts of land.
  • Eternally and artificially low interest rates.
  • The usual tax incentives that everyone knows about. These are an anti-market distortion and morally wrong.
  • Failed decentralisation due to lack of truly transformative or imaginative policies to encourage it.
  • NIMBYisim and planning policy stuck in the 1950s-70s that results in inefficient sprawling suburbs.
  • Poorly sized inner city apartments not fit for raising children in.
  • Immigration rate is too high.


Nothing will change until the boomer generation starts dying off and even then it will only change if immigration isn't ramped up further.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Agreed. I think there are a few things here:

  • Boomers and War Babies are living much longer than previous generations and tying up enormous tracts of land.
  • Eternally and artificially low interest rates.
  • The usual tax incentives that everyone knows about. These are an anti-market distortion and morally wrong.
  • Failed decentralisation due to lack of truly transformative or imaginative policies to encourage it.
  • NIMBYisim and planning policy stuck in the 1950s-70s that results in inefficient sprawling suburbs.
  • Poorly sized inner city apartments not fit for raising children in.
  • Immigration rate is too high.


Nothing will change until the boomer generation starts dying off and even then it will only change if immigration isn't ramped up further.
Mr. Lane
They're chomping at the bit to get migrants back in as soon as possible because there's a chance that with labour shortages that wages will go up. And they've been doing everything in their power since "Work Choices" to ensure that this doesn't happen - again, the highly successful war on youth and the working class continues unabated.

Meanwhile Australian housing goes from sublime to ridiculous - ABC;


Sydney's insane increase of 20% in just one year - I mean, how is that good for the national economy considering we already have among the world's most expensive gas and electricity - and housing almost the most expensive on the planet? Who on earth could establish a business here and be competitive with Asia? Hobart's increase of nearly 25% in one year in nigh on obscene - there's bugger all jobs and industry in Tassie, locals are being priced out of their own city by mainland investors.

Sydney is on the cusp of having lots of TWO MILLION median house price suburbs - like Marrackville, Newtown and other inner West locales. Who on earth could afford that starting out in their twenties UNLESS they had family money?

Again, I don't understand why the youth of this country aren't more upset - they've been thoroughly dealt out of economic participation in the future of this country and no amount of uni education will enable them to catch up.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Gladys rehearsing for tomorrow’s presser?



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wLTGXblgUoc&feature=youtu.be

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