I recall that last time there were passenger rolling stock scrapping the network was left short.

That is because, then in Victoria order small batches of trains rather than large orders that the WA and NSW rail networks do. It was 5 trains here and 6 trains there. Victoria did not order enough trains to cope with the spike in Patronage, therefore the Bracks Government had to resurrect old tin can Hitachi trains to cover for the shortfall.

This is simply not the case now. The Andrews Government has a large order of 65 HCMT's which will allow the refurbed Comengs and Siemens trains to be cascaded to the Upfield, Craigieburn and Frankston lines. In addition 25 x 6 Xtrapolis 2.0 have been in the process of being ordered.


Michael

A Hazpt Youtube video shows those two sets on transfer to Geelong, hauled by two SSP T class, for scrapping according to the video



https://youtu.be/GVIo7ON3QLg

Neil

I recall that last time there were passenger rolling stock scrapping the network was left short.

That is because, then in Victoria order small batches of trains rather than large orders that the WA and NSW rail networks do. It was 5 trains here and 6 trains there. Victoria did not order enough trains to cope with the spike in Patronage, therefore the Bracks Government had to resurrect old tin can Hitachi trains to cover for the shortfall.

This is simply not the case now. The Andrews Government has a large order of 65 HCMT's which will allow the refurbed Comengs and Siemens trains to be cascaded to the Upfield, Craigieburn and Frankston lines. In addition 25 x 6 Xtrapolis 2.0 have been in the process of being ordered.


Michael

Not quite, but close.

Connex chose to scrap them as they had just purchased the Xtraps and patronage was falling/stagnant, below their contract targets. So in true privatisation fashion, they were sold off to save on maintenance cost as Connex forecast they wouldn't be needed.

Changes to Zone 3 Metcards and patronage went through the roof, faster than Connex thought it would. More Xtraps were ordered, but were a year away. They had no choice to buy back the Hitachi's as they government was under massive pressure (This was the same time they didn't think it was needed to run all night trains on NYE). It was intended to be a stop gap for 12 months, but patronage continued to rise and Connex had no choice but to keep them in service. Metro even ran them at the start of their contract as the government was still drip feeding.

It took almost 10 years and three changes in government to commit to a large order of trains.

The Andrews government had no choice really, Comengs are coming to the end of their life, they had seen what the public had done when they couldn't board a peak hour train during the Brumby government.

Lockie

A Hazpt Youtube video shows those two sets on transfer to Geelong, hauled by two SSP T class, for scrapping according to the video



https://youtu.be/GVIo7ON3QLg

Neil

They should give them a bit of a scrub and return them to Tottenham for more graffiti on. a regular. basis- would save the new fleet then

I recall that last time there were passenger rolling stock scrapping the network was left short.

That is because, then in Victoria order small batches of trains rather than large orders that the WA and NSW rail networks do. It was 5 trains here and 6 trains there. Victoria did not order enough trains to cope with the spike in Patronage, therefore the Bracks Government had to resurrect old tin can Hitachi trains to cover for the shortfall.

This is simply not the case now. The Andrews Government has a large order of 65 HCMT's which will allow the refurbed Comengs and Siemens trains to be cascaded to the Upfield, Craigieburn and Frankston lines. In addition 25 x 6 Xtrapolis 2.0 have been in the process of being ordered.


Michael

Not quite, but close.

Connex chose to scrap them as they had just purchased the Xtraps and patronage was falling/stagnant, below their contract targets. So in true privatisation fashion, they were sold off to save on maintenance cost as Connex forecast they wouldn't be needed.

Changes to Zone 3 Metcards and patronage went through the roof, faster than Connex thought it would. More Xtraps were ordered, but were a year away. They had no choice to buy back the Hitachi's as they government was under massive pressure (This was the same time they didn't think it was needed to run all night trains on NYE). It was intended to be a stop gap for 12 months, but patronage continued to rise and Connex had no choice but to keep them in service. Metro even ran them at the start of their contract as the government was still drip feeding.

It took almost 10 years and three changes in government to commit to a large order of trains.

The Andrews government had no choice really, Comengs are coming to the end of their life, they had seen what the public had done when they couldn't board a peak hour train during the Brumby government.

Lockie

True. Your account is more accurate than mine. Both of us can agree that previous Governments have drip fed rollingstock.

Michael

Might be worth noting that just because the trains are being sent for scrap does not mean the materials they were made from can't be recycled.

Might be worth noting that just because the trains are being sent for scrap does not mean the materials they were made from can't be recycled.

Missing the point. It would be much more carbon intensive to build brand new trains - no two ways about it.

And nearly everyone I know who wears their 'green' credentials on their sleeve is hiding some kinds of grossly hypocritical behaviour that they are almost always blissfully unaware of.

All these greenies - they're always driving the latest two-tonne Landcruisers - diesel in a metro area usually so they can cause particulate pollution where it'll do the most damage ("But I need it for safety"). They always throw out their phone every year and get a new one (because you have to now-days). They renovate their homes and throw out perfectly good stoves, fridges, dishwashers etc because they want all new ("Ugh, that's soooo nineties"). Can't have a TV more than four years old - need one with all the latest Android, QLED blacks, whatever.

This relentless desire for new (and fully imported) has a cost to the planet in the form of coal that needs to be burnt to make the stuff they they're lusting over - only they don't even think about it because it happens OFF-SHORE and out-of-sight - and often with OUR coal and OUR gas. Most of the stuff they throw away can't be recycled - it goes into landfill for future archeologists to marvel over our throw-away consumption lust.

And yet the same people on this board who engage in that 'new is best' thinking are nearly always the same ones pillorying me for having the cheek to demand cheap and accessible electricity for poor Australians and to create jobs for Australian people - because how dare I want to use our own resources on-shore to make life easier for the poor!

So have your brand new Belt-and-Road Chinese built trains with the exciting new regenerative braking and the whizz-bang LED display boards - it's all borrowed money anyway, who cares, you're not going to be the ones paying for it - some future generation of long-suffering Victorian taxpayers will be the ones paying it back.

Why not start planning to throw the Siemens trains in the bin - they're a relatively small orphan order, a mistake of Kennett allowing National Express to buy what they wanted to buy. There's probably sufficient justification with incompatibility with the rest of the fleet to get rid of them: Chop 'em up and put 'em in the bin I say and get brand new Chinese ones on the Belt-and-Road credit card. And then the X'traps - well they're getting on now and they were built on the cheap anyway - AND they're made of (ugh!) mild steel instead of stainless. In the bin they go!

Mod note:

Thread cleaned of trolling and flaming.

Why not start planning to throw the Siemens trains in the bin - they're a relatively small orphan order, a mistake of Kennett allowing National Express to buy what they wanted to buy. There's probably sufficient justification with incompatibility with the rest of the fleet to get rid of them: Chop 'em up and put 'em in the bin I say and get brand new Chinese ones on the Belt-and-Road credit card. And then the X'traps - well they're getting on now and they were built on the cheap anyway - AND they're made of (ugh!) mild steel instead of stainless. In the bin they go! Funny

Thats the plan, they are not getting a midlife refurbishment unlike the X-craps, going right in the bin when the X-maybenotCrap(?) MK2's start arriving. Cope with it. The Chinese crap that's coming in is also pretty bloody nice.

Since when have you been an Eco Warrior, you've always been the one advocating for new coal power generation and such. You seem more unhinged than usual with this, perhaps considering taking a break from this site for a bit eh?

Might be worth noting that just because the trains are being sent for scrap does not mean the materials they were made from can't be recycled.

Missing the point. It would be much more carbon intensive to build brand new trains - no two ways about it.

And nearly everyone I know who wears their 'green' credentials on their sleeve is hiding some kinds of grossly hypocritical behaviour that they are almost always blissfully unaware of.

All these greenies - they're always driving the latest two-tonne Landcruisers - diesel in a metro area usually so they can cause particulate pollution where it'll do the most damage ("But I need it for safety"). They always throw out their phone every year and get a new one (because you have to now-days). They renovate their homes and throw out perfectly good stoves, fridges, dishwashers etc because they want all new ("Ugh, that's soooo nineties"). Can't have a TV more than four years old - need one with all the latest Android, QLED blacks, whatever.

This relentless desire for new (and fully imported) has a cost to the planet in the form of coal that needs to be burnt to make the stuff they they're lusting over - only they don't even think about it because it happens OFF-SHORE and out-of-sight - and often with OUR coal and OUR gas. Most of the stuff they throw away can't be recycled - it goes into landfill for future archeologists to marvel over our throw-away consumption lust.

And yet the same people on this board who engage in that 'new is best' thinking are nearly always the same ones pillorying me for having the cheek to demand cheap and accessible electricity for poor Australians and to create jobs for Australian people - because how dare I want to use our own resources on-shore to make life easier for the poor!

So have your brand new Belt-and-Road Chinese built trains with the exciting new regenerative braking and the whizz-bang LED display boards - it's all borrowed money anyway, who cares, you're not going to be the ones paying for it - some future generation of long-suffering Victorian taxpayers will be the ones paying it back.

Why not start planning to throw the Siemens trains in the bin - they're a relatively small orphan order, a mistake of Kennett allowing National Express to buy what they wanted to buy. There's probably sufficient justification with incompatibility with the rest of the fleet to get rid of them: Chop 'em up and put 'em in the bin I say and get brand new Chinese ones on the Belt-and-Road credit card. And then the X'traps - well they're getting on now and they were built on the cheap anyway - AND they're made of (ugh!) mild steel instead of stainless. In the bin they go!

Correct to a large degree.
My only comment relates to the Siemens trains which IMHO are superior to both the Comengs and the Xtraps. The airconditioning works, the doors open with the push of a button and the ride is as good as our poor track standards will allow.

My only comment relates to the Siemens trains which IMHO are superior to both the Comengs and the Xtraps. The airconditioning works, the doors open with the push of a button and the ride is as good as our poor track standards will allow.

The Siemens imho are the best on the network of the pre HCMT train sets. Big seats, Can Walk through the entire thing without a door, big round windows. Despite their breaking issues early on, its  quite a shame we didn't order any more of them. Miles better then the X-Craps that were being ordered till recently with their trampoline suspension.

Missing the point. It would be much more carbon intensive to build brand new trains - no two ways about it.

And nearly everyone I know who wears their 'green' credentials on their sleeve is hiding some kinds of grossly hypocritical behaviour that they are almost always blissfully unaware of.

All these greenies - they're always driving the latest two-tonne Landcruisers - diesel in a metro area usually so they can cause particulate pollution where it'll do the most damage ("But I need it for safety"). They always throw out their phone every year and get a new one (because you have to now-days). They renovate their homes and throw out perfectly good stoves, fridges, dishwashers etc because they want all new ("Ugh, that's soooo nineties"). Can't have a TV more than four years old - need one with all the latest Android, QLED blacks, whatever.

The funniest double standard came about when the Vic Gov introduced the per km charge for EVs. The greens were all up in arms that no one would buy EVs any more. Sorry to break it to you, but most people don't have $75k for an EV in the first place, and another $5k to $10k to setup a charger at home, that's why. And as the green party surely you'd want to encourage people to walk/bike/PT before driving anyway which is what this user charge helps to encourage (active consideration, replacing passive habits).

It's been a good innings, the oldest Comengs have proved their worth for 40 years. 320M was a true survivor, having shook off an unprovoked attack by Hitachi 90M in 1989. By comparison, we were already withdrawing Hitachis for scrapping in the late 90s - these weren't riddled with asbestos like the Harrises, the Hitachis were literally falling apart, the wooden floors were rotting away, the steel bodywork was rusting underneath the stainless sheet metal etc. - on top of that The Met did a half-fast job upgrading them so half the entire fleet couldn't run up front making them useless (by contrast, if there was a faulty Comeng motor, the defective 3-car set could be uncoupled and the good set hooked up to another 3-car set, or simply run as 3 carriages, unlike a Hitachi where only about half a dozen SPOTified 3 car Hitachis existed in the entire fleet).

'... As I recall Comengs only had upgraded air cons 10-12 years ago ...'
And they didn't work either.

While Dangerous Donny has been waffling on. I noticed that no one mentioned the souvenir hunters caused a delay of several hours to the transfer on Saturday.

While Dangerous Donny has been waffling on. I noticed that no one mentioned the souvenir hunters caused a delay of several hours to the transfer on Saturday.

A gunzel rumour started by people with no idea.

It was a fault in the transition coupler, which wasn't picked up at Newport Workshops as it was on the rear of the train at that time.

Once the Metro fitters replaced the transition coupling it was good to go.

While Dangerous Donny has been waffling on. I noticed that no one mentioned the souvenir hunters caused a delay of several hours to the transfer on Saturday.

A gunzel rumour started by people with no idea.

It was a fault in the transition coupler, which wasn't picked up at Newport Workshops as it was on the rear of the train at that time.

Once the Metro fitters replaced the transition coupling it was good to go.

Does this mean the set has been moved away from Tottenham Yard?

While Dangerous Donny has been waffling on. I noticed that no one mentioned the souvenir hunters caused a delay of several hours to the transfer on Saturday.

A gunzel rumour started by people with no idea.

It was a fault in the transition coupler, which wasn't picked up at Newport Workshops as it was on the rear of the train at that time.

Once the Metro fitters replaced the transition coupling it was good to go.

Does this mean the set has been moved away from Tottenham Yard?

Yes that set is now at North Shore.

It only came out of Newport and staged at Totty Yard for a couple days due to an occupation at Newport preventing access from the workshops on the Saturday.

The next three sets to North Shore all go direct from Newport.

I understand after that however, there is numerous sets (possible more than a dozen) to be stored at Tottenham Yard in the old PN lease.

Thanks for that Jack. So there are a few Comeng sets due for imminent withdrawal, do we know how long they will be stored for at this stage?

Job and apprenticeships for the youth are a nice thought, but its a fallacy. If these jobs were done in Australia, do you think that it would be done by a Person, or by a large number of apprentices's? I would think that they would employ a few robots instead... Easier to control and doesn't spout crap on the internet in their downtime.

Plus, even if there were apprenticeships aplenty, what happens at the end of the order? We've seen the bombardier site survive on drips and drabs of VLo orders. If you train somebody, and after 5 years, the whole thing gets shut down because the order is finished, what is the person you've trained going to do? There could be an oversupply of skilled people, who would either find other jobs and industries, or move elsewhere. An oversupply of labour is bad, just like an undersupply. I'm sure you could say that they could supply the rest of Australia, but I wouldn't think NSW or QLD would want to use their taxpayers money to support Victorian Jobs.

Miising some arguments ??


Try Building SuburbanTrains thread that was not on topic here. So I split the thread. This threrad for the topic it's stated for.

Thanks dthead, very much appreciated (it is somewhat amazing how quickly it got 'inflamed ', though given how this century has progressed, not so). Does anyone know if theses recent Comeng storages were operational sets or ones that have been stripped for parts to help keep the other sets going?
Thanks
Sim

Another Comeng transfer happened recently.

P16-18 hauled 301M-302M-303M-304M to North Shore on Saturday 28th.

I read somewhere that there's people trying to buy whole carriages for the usual usage of old carriages, but they're getting no response even with waving checkbooks at the public servants that should know or recently sold off whole Hitachis. Looks like all the Comengs are off to the shredder.

I read somewhere that there's people trying to buy whole carriages for the usual usage of old carriages, but they're getting no response even with waving checkbooks at the public servants that should know or recently sold off whole Hitachis. Looks like all the Comengs are off to the shredder.

Maybe they want to avoid any future embarrassment of buying them back to re-enter service temporarily.