V/Line halts rail freight due to poor track condition

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 Aug 2021 19:33
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I hear those wagons have not been allowed into class 3 track since 2013 ?

V/Line halts rail freight due to poor track condition

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  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Someone care to clue us in as to the reason for the ban? the article linked doesn't say.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I don't understand why this needs its own thread when the conversation was already being had in this thread here:
https://Railpage.com.au/f-p2224878.htm#2224878

I am a bit simple though, so these things sometimes pass me by, but questions like these:
Someone care to clue us in as to the reason for the ban? the article linked doesn't say.
Galron

might already be answered there.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Someone care to clue us in as to the reason for the ban? the article linked doesn't say.
Galron
Alright to preface this.

I had heard earlier today Qube had run the Ultima to North Shore and return to Vic Dock for unknown reasons.

Later as I got home, a friend told me that during the run outbound, all of a sudden V/line train control noticed they had CQXY's in the consist and told the driver that they were banned on class 3 track on the the V/line network and returned to Vic Dock to which they've spent most of the day trying to find every spare wagon that can be run for the train.

The CQXY's had been running on the Deni and Echuca trains for the last 5 years (after they got displaced from the Maryvale by the SQEF wagons) with Qube loading them within the V/line network axle loading, 19 tonnes an axle. This caused ZERO issues up until this point, and for some reason only got noticed now. Not even Qube know the reason why they are not allowed on the outer network, nor the drivers on the train at the time.

Funnily enough, the 80ft SQEF's are valid to run on the Ultima, but for some reason the 2x 40ft paired flats aren't.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
After speaking with V/Line Railpage has now received the following email. Perhaps this may shed some light on the matter.

Background

V/Line was made aware of a freight train scheduled to operate with CQXY type wagons on parts of the network where these wagons are not permitted to operate.

Safety is V/Line’s number one priority and train controllers stopped the train from running when they became aware that the train was scheduled to run with carriages that are not permitted for use on the parts of the network it was scheduled to operate over.

CQXY type train wagons were approved for use on parts of the regional rail network in 2013 but were restricted from operating on certain classes of track across the network at the time, these restrictions have not changed.

Victorian rail tracks have a class rating system based on the infrastructure in place along the line, there have been no recent changes to the class of tracks on the V/Line network.

The Victorian Government is continuing to invest in the ongoing upkeep of the regional Victorian rail freight network and the track infrastructure remains in good working condition.
VLINE

Has the track class changed recently on the route the train would have taken?

Comments please?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Gheringhap to Dunolly has been Class 3, and Dunolly to Manangatang Class 4 for a long time.

Although Korong Vale to Lalbert more resembles Class 5 with long TSRs of 20-30 km/h running due to neglected maintenance.  It's getting some work at present to get line speed back up to something reasonable.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The questions remains as to why this particular class is approved only on some lines.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
After speaking with V/Line Railpage has now received the following email. Perhaps this may shed some light on the matter.

Background

V/Line was made aware of a freight train scheduled to operate with CQXY type wagons on parts of the network where these wagons are not permitted to operate.

Safety is V/Line’s number one priority and train controllers stopped the train from running when they became aware that the train was scheduled to run with carriages that are not permitted for use on the parts of the network it was scheduled to operate over.

CQXY type train wagons were approved for use on parts of the regional rail network in 2013 but were restricted from operating on certain classes of track across the network at the time, these restrictions have not changed.

Victorian rail tracks have a class rating system based on the infrastructure in place along the line, there have been no recent changes to the class of tracks on the V/Line network.

The Victorian Government is continuing to invest in the ongoing upkeep of the regional Victorian rail freight network and the track infrastructure remains in good working condition.

Has the track class changed recently on the route the train would have taken?

Comments please?
bevans
BS, spin and the usual garbage that we have come to expect.
The questions remains as to why this particular wagon class is approved only on some lines and not others.
There must be a reason (either real or imaginary).
  emmastreet Chief Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
Or perhaps the question should be why are Qube running a class of  wagon on a line for which they are not approved?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Or perhaps the question should be why are Qube running a class of  wagon on a line for which they are not approved?
emmastreet
Before asking your question one needs to know why they are not approved?
Is there a real reason or just a bureaucratic stuff up?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
  changer Station Master

Just wondering given all of the information regarding track deterioration that its part of a Govt agenda to divest itself of rail freight and let road do the heavy hauling. Just a thought.

Regards Ross
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

The questions remains as to why this particular class is approved only on some lines.
YM-Mundrabilla
I don't know, just postulating a couple of thoughts

On the more lightly laid (read as, 'less well maintained') lines with lower speeds, IIRC, there is a higher threshold for 'Twist' (rate of change in the vertical axis of a rail, and considered in relation to the other rail).

If that is a given, and the CQXYs are permanently coupled in pairs, is there insufficient flexibility in the drawbars of said coupled pairs, for a track that may have a 'lively' ride?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The questions remains as to why this particular class is approved only on some lines.
I don't know, just postulating a couple of thoughts

On the more lightly laid (read as, 'less well maintained') lines with lower speeds, IIRC, there is a higher threshold for 'Twist' (rate of change in the vertical axis of a rail, and considered in relation to the other rail).

If that is a given, and the CQXYs are permanently coupled in pairs, is there insufficient flexibility in the drawbars of said coupled pairs, for a track may have a 'lively' ride?
Lockspike
That's the only thing that I can think of Lockspike that makes these things any different from any other 2 TEU container flat.
Be interesting to know for sure and what 'easy' fixes may be available.

Freight rail in Victoria is not meant to be successful where the real competition is Vline and the government.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

From the  VLP  media response  ...............  "  the track infrastructure remains in good working condition."

As Sir Humphrey would say "That is a brave statement Minister " given the Managatang line currently has over 70 continuous kilometres of speed restricted track between 20 and  30 km/h.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

"  the track infrastructure remains in good working condition."
kuldalai
Means, 'most trains sent out there make it back'.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
From the  VLP  media response  ...............  "  the track infrastructure remains in good working condition."

As Sir Humphrey would say "That is a brave statement Minister " given the Managatang line currently has over 70 continuous kilometres of speed restricted track between 20 and  30 km/h.
kuldalai
That is not a 'brave statement'.
It is a lie.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
From the  VLP  media response  ...............  "  the track infrastructure remains in good working condition."

As Sir Humphrey would say "That is a brave statement Minister " given the Manangatang line currently has over 70 continuous kilometres of speed restricted track between 20 and  30 km/h.
kuldalai

'Courageous'...not brave.

It's been reported that whilst ScoMo and Treasurer Joshy have been locked down in the Lodge, they have been re-discovering episodes of Yes, Minister.

Mike
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Carnot
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
james.au
920 mm or 830 mm if I remember correctly but that should only affect the axleload not the ability to run ?????????????
I imagine that these wagons would be 830 mm IF the 1020 deck height is correct but open to correction or confirmation on this.
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
jakar
So this was a problem with the registration and not a physical problem with the vehicle/track interface??
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
920 mm or 830 mm if I remember correctly but that should only affect the axleload not the ability to run ?????????????
I imagine that these wagons would be 830 mm IF the 1020 deck height is correct but open to correction or confirmation on this.
YM-Mundrabilla
Im still not clear what the issue is between 920mm and 830mm diameters?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Anyway, the issue is getting sorted out. And the reason is dumber than you think.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
So this was a problem with the registration and not a physical problem with the vehicle/track interface??
james.au
'... Is there a real reason or just a bureaucratic stuff up? ... '

Hence my question (above) on 28/8 at 1430!

'... train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own. ... '

Does this mean that in the case of a dangerous goods issue that Vline would have no idea of what was on the train?

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