The corona virus COVID-19

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
These state premiers have let their messiah complex go to their tiny little brains:



Meanwhile Dan Andrews posts a romantic B&W shot of himself with his family celebrating Father's Day - is it just me or do you think that its photo-shopped? His arm isn't casting a shadow on the table and his wife's head looks like it has some kind of halo around it:

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
By way of comparison, Stalin liked to be referred to as the 'grandpa' of the Soviet Union. Mao liked to depict himself as being the 'sun' that shone light into the lives of ordinary Chinese people:

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
...

Also despite what people think, employers do have a right to dictate if your emplpyment is linked to vaccination as they have the right to link many other things you do both on and off the clock to your employment.
Like sack you for skiving off on Railpage in working time?
don_dunstan
HI Don, welcome to 2021, how's life in 1950?

Unless you are hourly rates, then we are all good.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Gladys didn't let it rip. Vic ansd NZ had supposidly better lockdown approach to contain and eliminate. Is anything different there. Ironically is the virus in the community and lockdowns that is driving people to get vaccinated where as before vaccination rates were lower than the delivery of the vaccines in recent weeks before the outbreak.I hesitate to crow too early. As in the initial outbreak from Quarantine in Auckland, Stuff happens. While they know it was from a returnee from Sydney, extensive study has not found the link.

Brianr
You previously had very negative views before on the fact transmission went from NSW to NZ dspite the fact its up to NZ to protect itself from all travellers, not just those not from Australia, but now you say "stuff happens".

The outbreak NZ which went into rapid lockdown and Vic not alot different ad NSW which took a bit longer shows that the difference isn't a great deal. In eitehr case the focus is on jabbing peopl and getting to 80% ASAP. Its unlikey either Vic, NSW or NZ wil change alot in regards to lockdown until 70% has being achieved.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I have about a two percent chance of going to hospital if I get COVID19 without vaccination - that's what the statistics tell me for my age group and health status. And that's not factoring in the new antiviral treatments that have just been approved last month.

So don't come to me with a made-up story about how I'm definitely going to cost you money in public health outcomes... you could cost ME money with myocarditis in years to come when your heart tissues deteriorate from all those vaccines. Do you think I'd be fair to blame you for your enthusiasm for the vaccines and kick you out of the public health system?

No. So respect other people's decisions to manage their health in the way that they want to and just get on with your life.
don_dunstan
2% chance of dying, similar levels of getting long covid. Either way you are going to cost the community alot of money.

vs

1/100,000 chance or a bad reaction from vax.

When you refuse to get the vax within 1mth of it being offered, you should sign a finacial waver to the state you will pay for your own medical treatment.

I wonder if the "I'm not anti vax, but are anti CV vax " crowd apply the same level of scruity to the usual vaccines?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Mick made the salient point, of why Morrison is EBay shopping all over the world to acquire more Pfizer. An admittance that he and the truculent runt totally stuffed up.
Didn’t scomo borrow 4million doses from bojo recently, To be returned prior to Xmas?
Surely bojo secured some sort of collateral for this arrangement, I certainly would have.
michaelgm
BoJo got a good deal. His vax were near expired as UK population take up has evaporated. So the ones Australia will provide later on will be suited time wise for the booster cycle.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You do know that evidence out of Israel says that you're actually more likely to catch Delta from a vaccinated person.
don_dunstan
The statisical (il)logic would also show that in Israel you are more likely to catrch Delta from someone who speaks Hebrew.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
2% chance of dying...
RTT_Rules
No. Two percent chance of going to hospital.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You do know that evidence out of Israel says that you're actually more likely to catch Delta from a vaccinated person.
The statisical (il)logic would also show that in Israel you are more likely to catrch Delta from someone who speaks Hebrew.
RTT_Rules
You just got a really well-deserved drubbing from Valvegear about not being able to argue properly... and then you come up with that absurd statement? Nothing if consistent.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Seems really strange that largely unvaccinated India hardly seems to have any COVID19 transmission or cases (currently only 17% of their population fully vaccinated) whereas highly vaccinated Israel can't seem to stop transmission of COVID19. Is the answer purely the fact that Israel conducts more testing?

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Thank you. If we ever needed proof that you have no idea about conditions and political workings here, you have just provided it. Trying logic and facts on you is wasted - you now become the second person with whom I will not engage here due it being a total waste of time. I'll stick with people who can think and debate (and spell) clearly. The Dubai combination of mental constipation and verbal diarrhoea I can do without.
Valvegear
Yah, so basically you just said you have no idea what you are talking about.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You do know that evidence out of Israel says that you're actually more likely to catch Delta from a vaccinated person.
The statisical (il)logic would also show that in Israel you are more likely to catrch Delta from someone who speaks Hebrew.
You just got a really well-deserved drubbing from Valvegear about not being able to argue properly... and then you come up with that absurd statement? Nothing if consistent.
don_dunstan
You call that a "drubbing", hardly. it was someone going off, like he has in the past when you don't agree with his political views. His choice.

As for Israel, your comment to Brian was illiogical. The point was the bulk of the Israelie population is vaccinated. No one ever said being vaccinated did't stop getting infected, less likely yes. People who are vaccinated lead more normal lives so yes Delta is being spread but very very few are getting sick. .
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Thank you. If we ever needed proof that you have no idea about conditions and political workings here, you have just provided it. Trying logic and facts on you is wasted - you now become the second person with whom I will not engage here due it being a total waste of time. I'll stick with people who can think and debate (and spell) clearly. The Dubai combination of mental constipation and verbal diarrhoea I can do without.
Yah, so basically you just said you have no idea what you are talking about.
RTT_Rules
Another irony meter bites the dust
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Now twisting your own strawman, about Sinopharm. And the initial argument about NZ was about how there combating their own cases,nothing more than that. Trying to make it into any more than that just shows your ignorance of the situation here.  Your just making $hit up to cover for the incompetence of your beloved LNP. As for the workings of National cabinet,you obviously don't have much Idea, there is no binding agreement and their deliberations are taken on the basis of the situation being very fluid. Even the Doherty Report said in the fine print that it's modelling was based on the situation at the time, and circumstances will change.
wobert
No Wobert, I have not made $hit up regarding the vaccine aquistation and you know it as otherwise you would have responded with something other that making such statements, again!

The National Cabinet which includes the Premiers and its intent is to develope and provide a unified approach.

National Cabinet is the Australian intergovernmental decision-making forum composed of the prime minister and state and territory premiers and chief ministers. Originally established on 13 March 2020 in response to the COVID-19 pandemic....It was created via the "National Partnership on COVID-19 Response" agreement[5] to "coordinate and deliver a consistent national response to COVID-19" during the global COVID-19 pandemic.

Why is that two Premiers repeatitly walk out and say the opposite? While circumstaces change, they do not repeatitly change within 24-48 h of the meeting. If they don't want to be part of the discussion, then why attend? We both know they are playing politics.

Regarding Sinopharm, it was available but not taken up because YOU would not have taken it along with most of the population. As for the rest of the vacines you harped on about, YOU know or at least know now why were not available so why you keep flogging this dead horse can only be purely political.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Thank you. If we ever needed proof that you have no idea about conditions and political workings here, you have just provided it. Trying logic and facts on you is wasted - you now become the second person with whom I will not engage here due it being a total waste of time. I'll stick with people who can think and debate (and spell) clearly. The Dubai combination of mental constipation and verbal diarrhoea I can do without.
Yah, so basically you just said you have no idea what you are talking about.
Another irony meter bites the dust
wobert
You are just as bad.

Crapping on about 140m vaccines when Blindy Freddy knows why most never came available.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You just got a really well-deserved drubbing from Valvegear about not being able to argue properly... and then you come up with that absurd statement? Nothing if consistent.
You call that a "drubbing", hardly. it was someone going off, like he has in the past when you don't agree with his political views. His choice.

As for Israel, your comment to Brian was illiogical. The point was the bulk of the Israelie population is vaccinated. No one ever said being vaccinated did't stop getting infected, less likely yes. People who are vaccinated lead more normal lives so yes Delta is being spread but very very few are getting sick. .
RTT_Rules
Not illogical, in fact quite readily demonstrable - Nature 12/8/2021

Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people. This means that despite the protection offered by vaccines, a proportion of vaccinated people can pass on Delta, possibly aiding its rise.

“People who have a Delta virus and happen to have ‘breakthrough’ infections can carry these really high levels of virus, and can unwittingly spread the virus to others,” says David O’Connor, a virologist at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.

So BrianR is completely wrong if he thinks that surrounding himself with other vaccinated people will protect him from getting the dreaded 'rona - it won't - in fact vaccinated people can be just as contagious. This observation is NOT anti-vaccination, it's just pointing out that these vaccines have some quite clear limitations in what they can do.

And it was a good drubbing Valvegear gave you - it was actually right on the money.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

So BrianR is completely wrong if he thinks that surrounding himself with other vaccinated people will protect him from getting the dreaded 'rona - it won't - in fact vaccinated people can be just as contagious. This observation is NOT anti-vaccination, it's just pointing out that these vaccines have some quite clear limitations in what they can do.
don_dunstan

Correct and he will likely eventually get it regardless of what he does. This idea that we need to vaccinate to stop the spread is not supported by the evidence, which is why we see the virus spreading in Israel. People who are going to exclude non-vaccinated people from their circle of friends are just losing friends for no reason.

There is also no logic to vaccinating kids: it wont stop them spreading the virus the moment they return to schools.

I think RTTs point about the likelihood of catching the virus from Hebrews is actually on point. What he is saying is that there is a large number of vaccinated people in Israel so the chances of getting infected by a vaccinated person is quite high.

In effect, you both sort of agree with each other.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
As I understand it, vaccinated people are still capable of transmitting it, but at a much lower rate than non-vaccinated, is this so??
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Thank you. If we ever needed proof that you have no idea about conditions and political workings here, you have just provided it. Trying logic and facts on you is wasted - you now become the second person with whom I will not engage here due it being a total waste of time. I'll stick with people who can think and debate (and spell) clearly. The Dubai combination of mental constipation and verbal diarrhoea I can do without.
Valvegear
I don't know, I think RTT is the only person who has been making much sense on this issue for a while now. Everyone else except Don has become blind to what is happening elsewhere in the world. The world is moving on but Australia and NZ are further wrapping themselves up in bubble wrap and cotton wool and isolating from the rest of the world.

Last year RTTs preaching from afar was annoying and I generally regard expat workers as having less value in debates and absolve their rights when they choose to pay their taxes overseas, but he is kinda on point here. I don't like Morrison or the Libs but people are keeping up the vaccination rollout critique long past the point of it being useful or relevant and it does seem that it is more to do with politics than any practical concern.

Just about everyone could have got vaccinated earlier if the confused messaging that is out of Morrisons control hadn't have been screwed up. ATAGI has a lot to answer for and their decision to not support for AZ for the under 50s and then 60s was extremely short sighted.

The PM was only following the advice that was given at the time. If he didn't and there were major problems with AZ for the under 60s he would have been crucified.

Anyway what happened to the AZ vaccine apparently only having a 48 day half life? Now people are saying it is the mRNA vaccines that don't offer lasting protection...
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

As I understand it, vaccinated people are still capable of transmitting it, but at a much lower rate than non-vaccinated, is this so??
lsrailfan
The evidence that is building is that the rate is lower bot not enough to stop everyone from eventually getting the virus anyway.

Vaccination will help slow the spread, but much less effectively than lockdowns. When the lockdowns finish, expect the virus to continue to spread exponentially.

All of this is about slowing down the rate of hospital admissions now.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Thank you. If we ever needed proof that you have no idea about conditions and political workings here, you have just provided it. Trying logic and facts on you is wasted - you now become the second person with whom I will not engage here due it being a total waste of time. I'll stick with people who can think and debate (and spell) clearly. The Dubai combination of mental constipation and verbal diarrhoea I can do without.
I don't know, I think RTT is the only person who has been making much sense on this issue for a while now. Everyone else except Don has become blind to what is happening elsewhere in the world. The world is moving on but Australia and NZ are further wrapping themselves up in bubble wrap and cotton wool and isolating from the rest of the world.

Last year RTTs preaching from afar was annoying and I generally regard expat workers as having less value in debates and absolve their rights when they choose to pay their taxes overseas, but he is kinda on point here. I don't like Morrison or the Libs but people are keeping up the vaccination rollout critique long past the point of it being useful or relevant and it does seem that it is more to do with politics than any practical concern.

Just about everyone could have got vaccinated earlier if the confused messaging that is out of Morrisons control hadn't have been screwed up. ATAGI has a lot to answer for and their decision to not support for AZ for the under 50s and then 60s was extremely short sighted.

The PM was only following the advice that was given at the time. If he didn't and there were major problems with AZ for the under 60s he would have been crucified.

Anyway what happened to the AZ vaccine apparently only having a 48 day half life? Now people are saying it is the mRNA vaccines that don't offer lasting protection...
Mr. Lane
I read something out of the UK the other day, (think it was UK), that A-Z is more effective against the Delta Strain than Pfizer.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
The PM was only following the advice that was given at the time. If he didn't and there were major problems with AZ for the under 60s he would have been crucified.
Mr. Lane
His government hasn't done well with the vaccine rollout and has also failed to implement a national quarantine standard.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Now twisting your own strawman, about Sinopharm. And the initial argument about NZ was about how there combating their own cases,nothing more than that. Trying to make it into any more than that just shows your ignorance of the situation here.  Your just making $hit up to cover for the incompetence of your beloved LNP. As for the workings of National cabinet,you obviously don't have much Idea, there is no binding agreement and their deliberations are taken on the basis of the situation being very fluid. Even the Doherty Report said in the fine print that it's modelling was based on the situation at the time, and circumstances will change.
No Wobert, I have not made $hit up regarding the vaccine aquistation and you know it as otherwise you would have responded with something other that making such statements, again!

The National Cabinet which includes the Premiers and its intent is to develope and provide a unified approach.

National Cabinet is the Australian intergovernmental decision-making forum composed of the prime minister and state and territory premiers and chief ministers. Originally established on 13 March 2020 in response to the COVID-19 pandemic....It was created via the "National Partnership on COVID-19 Response" agreement[5] to "coordinate and deliver a consistent national response to COVID-19" during the global COVID-19 pandemic.

Why is that two Premiers repeatitly walk out and say the opposite? While circumstaces change, they do not repeatitly change within 24-48 h of the meeting. If they don't want to be part of the discussion, then why attend? We both know they are playing politics.

Regarding Sinopharm, it was available but not taken up because YOU would not have taken it along with most of the population. As for the rest of the vacines you harped on about, YOU know or at least know now why were not available so why you keep flogging this dead horse can only be purely political.
RTT_Rules
Strawman strawman strawman and ignorant uninformed waffle and deflections, how do you know what I and others would have taken? I know you have to get the last word but I'm not interested.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

The PM was only following the advice that was given at the time. If he didn't and there were major problems with AZ for the under 60s he would have been crucified.
His government hasn't done well with the vaccine rollout and has also failed to implement a national quarantine standard.
Myrtone
The vaccine rollout isn't entirely the feds fault. Quarantine you have a point.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Neither, I want nothing to do with unvaccinated people which is why I no longer read your idiotic ramblings.
Brianr
But I'd so dearly like to be invited to your afternoon coffee catch-ups... is there really no chance I could come over sometime soon and cough my filthy germs on you and your friends?

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