New rail terminal could turn dreams into reality

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 14 Sep 2021 19:17
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Seems there are plans to relocate the passenger terminal closer into Darwin?

We talked about this last year (or earlier this year) in a similar vein.

Relocate the terminal into the city as the land is still available and I think the easement is also.  I have seen the location of the old station area and it is still available.

New rail terminal could turn dreams into reality

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  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Perhaps if they really want a WOW” factor terminal, they will just stop at Alice Springs. Or at a pinch , Katherine.

Or for a true outback experience, change trains at Port Augusta
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Sounds like a bit of a pipe dream, BUT, I've visited Darwin twice, in 2012 and 2019. I was amazed by the growth during that period, especially out towards and including Palmerston. Perhaps there is a need for improved commuter transport including rail, heavy or light. Either way a central terminal could be advantageous.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Seems there are plans to relocate the passenger terminal closer into Darwin?

We talked about this last year (or earlier this year) in a similar vein.

Relocate the terminal into the city as the land is still available and I think the easement is also.  I have seen the location of the old station area and it is still available.

New rail terminal could turn dreams into reality
bevans
The former Darwin Rail Station site still looks like It's vacant land, the former right of way Into the City Is partly still there, but mostly repurposed as a recreation trail, though It's not practical due to lack of direct links to the new standard gauge railway.

There has been a plan to build a rail link alongside Tiger Brennan Drive, but your probably going to need a bit more passenger train traffic other than a weekly GHAN to justify the cost of building such a rail link.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Heard this week in other dealings the NTG never wanted the passenger terminal where it is located today.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Typical Territorian dreaming.
Crazy enough to happen?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What was it is their preferred option ?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What was or is their preferred option ?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Heard this week in other dealings the NTG never wanted the passenger terminal where it is located today.
bevans
We all want and don't want alot of things, but unless you are willing to put up the cash then so be it. I agree the location sucks but someone has to pay for anything better.

To get to centre of Darwin is around 12 km or so and if using the old ROW incurring numerous LX, which won't happen and the ROW is of little value for any form of RPT.

If built the new line would like run south of Tiger Brennan Dr as less obstructions and LX although where to actually have a station is not easy.

However the better terminus is likely coming in around the back of the Airport terminal and its facilities with a station near the Novotel, still this isn't going to come in less than $20 - 30m. Who will pay?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What was or is their preferred option ?
freightgate

Close to the the town centre with discussions on the train lengths.  The NTG was not consulted about the current location is what I was told.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

What was or is their preferred option ?

Close to the the town centre with discussions on the train lengths.  The NTG was not consulted about the current location is what I was told.
I find that incredible considering that the NT and SA Govs were instrumental in creating this railway.
More likely they wanted a city terminal, but with the extreme stringencies in construction there just wasn't the cash to take the line into town.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What was or is their preferred option ?

Close to the the town centre with discussions on the train lengths.  The NTG was not consulted about the current location is what I was told.
I find that incredible considering that the NT and SA Govs were instrumental in creating this railway.
More likely they wanted a city terminal, but with the extreme stringencies in construction there just wasn't the cash to take the line into town.
Lockspike
Correct, how many hundreds of millions to the NT govt commit to the project for which it was a partner in? I find it hard to believe the NT Govt didn't know where the station was going as it would have been in the railway project discussions with local authorities regarding placement of all infrastructure for the railway.

The issue likely was the railway project was on the edge of not proceeding, only saved at last minute by the various govts throwing in more cash. We all know the line was built to a shoestring budget, such that there was no way in hell there would have been $10m's extra or equivalent funds diverted to building a spur line around 10km long for a minor portion of the targeted traffic with very limited growth potential compared to the bulk and intermodal traffic.

Bevans, I would suggest your sources are not real.

For the cost of building this spur line now, I would suggest the very much cash strapped govt could built 2-4 km of Light Rail, not saying they should but guess which would be more beneficial for the city.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The rail line was a private build at the tine right ?
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

The rail line was a private build at the tine right ?
freightgate
No. The SA & NT Govs set up a corporation to design and manage the build, (AustralAsia Railway Corp?).
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
It was built on the cheap with poor (wide) sleeper spacing and tight gauge and 'almost' without crossing loops.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
duttonbay
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
YM-Mundrabilla
Fair enough. One could also ask how many crossing loops are needed for the traffic requirements?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
Fair enough. One could also ask how many crossing loops are needed for the traffic requirements?
duttonbay
More than they got initially ('one engine in steam' Smile) to run a realistically flexible operation.

Are potential customers still precluded from running single engine trains 'just in case'?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
Fair enough. One could also ask how many crossing loops are needed for the traffic requirements?
duttonbay
More than they got initially ('one engine in steam' Smile) to run a realistically flexible operation.

Are potential customers still precluded from running single engine trains 'just in case'?
"YM-Mundrabilla"


They opened with less than 1 train per day in each direction. So they got I think it was 3 or 4 passing loops over 1700 km of track, certaily low by normal standards but the money as tight.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
Fair enough. One could also ask how many crossing loops are needed for the traffic requirements?
More than they got initially ('one engine in steam' Smile) to run a realistically flexible operation.

Are potential customers still precluded from running single engine trains 'just in case'?


They opened with less than 1 train per day in each direction. So they got I think it was 3 or 4 passing loops over 1700 km of track, certaily low by normal standards but the money as tight.
RTT_Rules
Hardly planning for growth but crossing loops in Train Order territory are (or used to be) cheap and easily added until the signal engineers got involved.
But I suppose it was cheap and nasty or nothing.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Hardly planning for growth but crossing loops in Train Order territory are (or used to be) cheap and easily added until the signal engineers got involved.
But I suppose it was cheap and nasty or nothing.
YM-Mundrabilla

What you and I see as flexibility, the bean counters see as an unnecessary expense.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Hardly planning for growth but crossing loops in Train Order territory are (or used to be) cheap and easily added until the signal engineers got involved.
But I suppose it was cheap and nasty or nothing.

What you and I see as flexibility, the bean counters see as an unnecessary expense.
duttonbay
Sad but true.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Question: how does "tight gauge" make it cheaper?
It doesn't unless one saves money on stupidity as it costs extra money to rectify.
Fair enough. One could also ask how many crossing loops are needed for the traffic requirements?
More than they got initially ('one engine in steam' Smile) to run a realistically flexible operation.

Are potential customers still precluded from running single engine trains 'just in case'?


They opened with less than 1 train per day in each direction. So they got I think it was 3 or 4 passing loops over 1700 km of track, certaily low by normal standards but the money as tight.
Hardly planning for growth but crossing loops in Train Order territory are (or used to be) cheap and easily added until the signal engineers got involved.
But I suppose it was cheap and nasty or nothing.
YM-Mundrabilla
YEp,

Remember the project was well over its cost recovery and needed govt funding to get it this far and they went back a few times to increase that funding as costs rose. I dare say the last time they went back they were told not to come back again. A 2km long crossing loop is still around $1-2m, thats $1-2m they didn't have.  

I've done the same during commissioning. Project Manager told me, "what will it take to just pass and not a cent more?"

If I recall it was the cheapest rail project in a per km basis in the world. Mind you they had some local benefits such as lack of major structures and almost no properties to reclaim.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What was or is their preferred option ?

Close to the the town centre with discussions on the train lengths.  The NTG was not consulted about the current location is what I was told.
bevans
I recall the proposed Railway Passenger Terminal was to be built on the edge of Palmerston, but they opted for a cheaper option of Integrating the station Into the Berrimah freight terminal (when a passenger train Is not present at the passenger terminal, It's closed to the public and used for shunting/stabling freight trains)

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