Canberra needs to be part of NSW’s fast rail plans

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 17 May 2021 19:29
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The video indicates the main purpose of the battery is to support acceleration and periods of high demand on the diesel, ie operating more like a Prius and not a Tesla.

The benefits if doing this is simple.
- diesel runs at more constant RPM which us better for life, fuel efficiency and emissions

- a smaller size diesel is needed

- no Aux motor is needed

- house power runs off a consistent cleaner supply, an issue the WA Prospectors had.

- less vibrations

The ability to go full EV is still a way off for Canberra services as its 270 km each way and only some recharging can be achieved while parked at CBR for 30 - 45 min turn around.

Might would on Hunter, but not longer haul Hunter.

Also cheaper option for Bombaderry services than 35km of OH and tunnel upgrades. Perhaps only partial OH where its cheap to do so and avoids need to change tunnels. So maybe a sub station at each station with a few km of OH in both directions to provide 5min of charge and power energy intensive acceleration.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I'm not suggesting to go full EV but adding some extra battery packs in to the trailer / non motor driven carriage could help reduce fuel consumption and allow the motors to run almost all the time on idle without needing to rev as much. Certainly bombaderry should be easy to go full EV and the telarah runs on the hunter.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm not suggesting to go full EV but adding some extra battery packs in to the trailer / non motor driven carriage could help reduce fuel consumption and allow the motors to run almost all the time on idle without needing to rev as much. Certainly bombaderry should be easy to go full EV and the telarah runs on the hunter.
simstrain
Considering the distance its pointless and just more weight to carry if not dispensing with the diesel traction system.

When a see a non-motor car with a large empty space under the floor, I'll believe you there is space but considering how busy the single deck EMU's are under the floor including the trailer cars such as used in Brisbane and southern states I'm not hopeful.

At least we agree South Coast is clearly an option and could be done as part of a demonstration project but would likely need one of the diesel units removed for space and weigh purposes which then makes its a dedciated set for the location but could still be done considering the location is not a critical part of the network. Likely once commissioned the train is more reliable than its DMU cousins.

Hunter yes, but the Telerah trains also need to run further north so again back to complexity of mixing stock.
  alleve Beginner

IMO the most feasible expansion of Sydney's electrification would be Kiama - Bomaderry. Plans are in to provide a 4km passing loop at Toolijooa and a second platform at Bomaderry (https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/kiama-to-bomaderry-project). The Govt claims this will double service capacity. Perhaps they use the momentum to keep going and upgrading the line further. After all, it's not a long branch.

I also know they're already planning duplication in the near future for parts of the SCO (between Unanderra and Dapto IIRC) and various alignment changes between Helensburgh and I think Thirroul over the coming decades to speed services up. I can't remember where to find it, but it was in a government report.

Extending the OH to Bomaderry (and some height clearance upgrades) would allow the D Sets to operate the full length of the line, making services more efficient and reducing the need for empty running when the singular DMU at Kiama needs to return to Sydney for maintenance.  I'd personally like to see the line extended to Nowra proper but I doubt it'd happen because it would be prohibitively expensive.


I can't see Hunter happening soon due to low patronage and the need to mix rolling stock with J and CAF sets. Similar situation applies to the SHL, the patronage just isn't high enough to warrant the cost. Moss Vale Electrification may come at some point but I don't see it happening any time soon. If the Hunter gets electrified eventually, it'd be to Telarah, not Maitland.


As for Canberra, priority one should be moving the station somewhere useful, adding an additional platform, duplication, more services, realignment to allow faster running. Electrification can come way later.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
IMO the most feasible expansion of Sydney's electrification would be Kiama - Bomaderry. Plans are in to provide a 4km passing loop at Toolijooa and a second platform at Bomaderry (https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/kiama-to-bomaderry-project). The Govt claims this will double service capacity. Perhaps they use the momentum to keep going and upgrading the line further. After all, it's not a long branch.

I also know they're already planning duplication in the near future for parts of the SCO (between Unanderra and Dapto IIRC) and various alignment changes between Helensburgh and I think Thirroul over the coming decades to speed services up. I can't remember where to find it, but it was in a government report.

Extending the OH to Bomaderry (and some height clearance upgrades) would allow the D Sets to operate the full length of the line, making services more efficient and reducing the need for empty running when the singular DMU at Kiama needs to return to Sydney for maintenance.  I'd personally like to see the line extended to Nowra proper but I doubt it'd happen because it would be prohibitively expensive.


I can't see Hunter happening soon due to low patronage and the need to mix rolling stock with J and CAF sets. Similar situation applies to the SHL, the patronage just isn't high enough to warrant the cost. Moss Vale Electrification may come at some point but I don't see it happening any time soon. If the Hunter gets electrified eventually, it'd be to Telarah, not Maitland.


As for Canberra, priority one should be moving the station somewhere useful, adding an additional platform, duplication, more services, realignment to allow faster running. Electrification can come way later.
alleve
Bomaderry doesn't need a 2nd platform

Running log D sets to Bomaderry is probably not in the best interest of taxpayer spending. even if sparked purhaps a smaller set used as more frequent all stoppers along the coast with the Sydney boud larger trains starting from say Kiama on limited stops to Central.

Canberra station should be relocated to the airport hub and new line run direct from Bungendore, this alone will save +20 min and drop passengers off at a location with actual services such as hotel, car hire, buses and expect future tram connection and yes maybe even a plane.
  alleve Beginner

I agree Bomaderry doesn't need a second platform, nor does it really need a passing loop (unless there's a freight demand for it). The Government is preparing to build it though. I'm also not sure how they'd even provide two services an hour considering how they're going to be 4 trains less when the New Regional Fleet comes in. I would assume there will either be a contract extension for more new sets or they'll keep some Endeavors in service and use the withdrawn Xplorers for parts.

If they do electrify and let D Sets operate, (big if), it would be 4 car sets operating the all-stops service. I'm not even sure if a 6 car D Set can fit on any platforms past Kiama, let alone a 10. My thinking is that it would be more efficient for the DMU operating that branch to be relocated elsewhere so the SCO can be served by one type of rolling stock. If you were at Bomaderry, you could potentially catch a 4 car D Set to Dapto or Wollongong.

Would the cost of a station relocation be feasible? It would all depend on whether tunneling would be needed, what properties are on the alignment, distance or re-alignment, etc. I realise relocation of Canberra station has been an issue for decades
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The loop isn't at Bomaderry. It is at Toolijooa and is perfectly situated to allow passenger trains to pass the freights as well as allowing a service up and back at the same time which would lead to an increased frequency.

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