Should the Adelaide Hills get a rail line?

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 19 May 2021 09:04
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
That is an amazing statistic what is the attraction ans would make the area bigger than Ararat, Maryborough and Bairnsdale and would be in par with Albury/Wodonga.

That must mean a train ?

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  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
What type of Mount Barker train are we talking? A peak direction commuter express? A regular public transport service?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

All the discussion so far is predicated that those leaving Mt Barker for a commute actually want to go the the CBD.

Before any sensible discussion about a rail service a survey needs to be taken of where people actually travel.

My educated guess is that they will end their inward journeys at Marion Shopping Centre, Burnside Village, Para Hills, Outer Harbour, Mawson Lakes, Salisbury, Flinders precinct etc.
May of these sites are accessible by rail but the journey time needs to include the onward times.

People are no longer used to catching multiple public transport services and to take the almost 2 hours needed to make such a commute.

Unless there is a significant uptake of employment in the CBD any rail service will be a farce.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Here is an idea on how to approach the problem. A dual purpose tunnel would be a better idea but may not fix congestion.

http://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/business-strategist-dr-paul-szuster-calls-for-scoping-study-into-dual-rail-tunnel-to-adelaide-hills

Freight and passenger trains using the tunnel would be faster into Adelaide from the east.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Last time I looked, when I had the software, a tunnel from Unley and a grade of 1 in 60 would daylight near Callington. Stations would be horrendously deep. Ventiation would be a serious issue. Great for freight only and the BG could go back to MtBarker; with regauging, the line could be double track, but would still wind around. Of course, it would allow Steam Ranger to return to Adelaide. But an all stations shared underground railway - no chance. There was a study years ago which included a tunnel between Maldon and Dombarton in NSW with a steep grade - oddly included it was studied for steam in the downhill only.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

Here is an idea on how to approach the problem. A dual purpose tunnel would be a better idea but may not fix congestion.

http://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/business-strategist-dr-paul-szuster-calls-for-scoping-study-into-dual-rail-tunnel-to-adelaide-hills

Freight and passenger trains using the tunnel would be faster into Adelaide from the east.
freightgate
Well the freight idea sounds good but the passengers from the east is rapidly dropping off even before covid hit going by the size of the Overland of late.  The Great Southern is only a as needed type of thing so what other passenger trains are there, none. So you are not going to get much in the way of passengers are you.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Last time I looked, when I had the software, a tunnel from Unley and a grade of 1 in 60 would daylight near Callington. Stations would be horrendously deep. Ventiation would be a serious issue. Great for freight only and the BG could go back to MtBarker; with regauging, the line could be double track, but would still wind around. Of course, it would allow Steam Ranger to return to Adelaide. But an all stations shared underground railway - no chance. There was a study years ago which included a tunnel between Maldon and Dombarton in NSW with a steep grade - oddly included it was studied for steam in the downhill only.
62440
Well the freight idea sounds good but the passengers from the east is rapidly dropping off even before covid hit going by the size of the Overland of late. The Great Southern is only a as needed type of thing so what other passenger trains are there, none. So you are not going to get much in the way of passengers are you.
DJPeters
The very cheapest way to do this thing would be to put a standard gauge connection between Morkalla VIC and Morgan SA and use existing alignments to connect Melbourne with the standard gauge north of Adelaide. There's your hills bypass, no long tunnel necessary - and you could also restore rail freight to the Riverland.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Last time I looked, when I had the software, a tunnel from Unley and a grade of 1 in 60 would daylight near Callington.  Stations would be horrendously deep. Ventiation would be a serious issue.
62440
If you did a true base tunnel from Millswood (the closest point of the railway to Unley, altitude 42m) to Callington (altitude 100m) in a straight line the gradient would be 1:754. I'm guessing your 1:60 tunnel rose to some arbitrary 'summit' and descended again?

I would submit, however, that the biggest problem of the Adelaide Hills is the curves, not the gradients. Electrification can sort out the gradients and significantly ease the issue of ventilation in a tunnel at the same time.

If electrified, a more realistic option for a hills tunnel than Szuster's proposal would be one running from Lynton to Aldgate, a 12.4km tunnel (depending on curvature) climbing at 1:41 (2.4%) and not requiring any underground station/s. 1:41 would not be a problem for modern electric traction on either freight or passenger service.

If a tunnel were to be built, the whole route should be turned into a proper 21st century main line. No one buttock solutions.
Tunnel from Bridgewater down to Verdun to bypass the big diversion between there and the current Ambleside loop.
Double track at least as far as Monarto South (location of a rolling highway terminal aimed at serving electric trucks).
Electrify as far as Tailem Bend (loco change for interstate freight)
Ease/bypass curves from Balhannah onwards.
Hills stations at Aldgate, Bridgewater, Balhannah, Nairne on the main line.
Spur line to Littlehampton and Mt Barker.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
As usual, no mention by anyone, including Szuster, of the potential cost.

The operating impediments of the Adelaide Hills line for freight are just armchair gunzels' wet dreams.

Such obstacles exist in many places around the world. Other countries juts get on with running trains while Australians sit around and whinge.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
As usual, no mention by anyone, including Szuster, of the potential cost.

The operating impediments of the Adelaide Hills line for freight are just armchair gunzels' wet dreams.

Such obstacles exist in many places around the world. Other countries juts get on with running trains while Australians sit around and whinge.
bingley hall

They are now working toward reopening Tennessee Pass for rail traffic and that is how high?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
As usual, no mention by anyone, including Szuster, of the potential cost.

The operating impediments of the Adelaide Hills line for freight are just armchair gunzels' wet dreams.

Such obstacles exist in many places around the world. Other countries juts get on with running trains while Australians sit around and whinge.

They are now working toward reopening Tennessee Pass for rail traffic and that is how high?
bevans
Apples and oranges again, Brian.
Also, No.

https://coloradosun.com/2021/03/25/surface-transportation-board-kills-colorado-midland-pacific-tennessee-pass/
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Of course, it would allow Steam Ranger to return to Adelaide.
62440
Allowing Steam Ranger back into Adelaide would be a no go as the nature of the Steam Locos' and heritage passenger cars' design would not be permitted under the 25kV for safety reasons.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Allowing Steam Ranger back into Adelaide would be a no go as the nature of the Steam Locos' and heritage passenger cars' design would not be permitted under the 25kV for safety reasons”
Without considering the issue of coal smoke in a tunnel of [12] km+!
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Allowing Steam Ranger back into Adelaide would be a no go as the nature of the Steam Locos' and heritage passenger cars' design would not be permitted under the 25kV for safety reasons.
nm39
Steamrail operate under the wires here in Victoria, or am I missing something?

Ross
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Yeah Ross, I think you’re missing the 25kV.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Yeah Ross, I think you’re missing the 25kV.
Aaron
Queensland does it
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Yeah Ross, I think you’re missing the 25kV.
Queensland does it
Lockspike
As did WA for a time and countless places in Europe. What they real question should be is if any of the post Webb SAR stock would be short enough to fit under the wires.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The focus should be on using the line over the hills to remove trucks from the SE Freeway, not buses.
A 'freight gate' outside Mt Barker could encourage the movement of freight volumes in and out of the Hills district - it's worked very well in other parts of the country.
don_dunstan

Perhaps connecting the Monarto distribution centre to rail would be a good start with an intermodal terminal adjacent?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Yeah Ross, I think you’re missing the 25kV.
Aaron
Genuine question, is 25kv different to 1500DC in Sydney where steam runs under the wires extensively?
  Alco_Haulic Chief Commissioner

Location: Eating out...
And what would that achieve bevens? You still have to truck the goods down the hill.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Yeah Ross, I think you’re missing the 25kV.
Genuine question, is 25kv different to 1500DC in Sydney where steam runs under the wires extensively?
james.au
Yes. Apart from being over 16 times the potential it is also AC. Every thing in the area can have eddy-currents induced into it and can cause all sorts of arcing etc, which has the potential of causing flash explosions with coal and grain dust.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Labor Party had a gab-fest the other night at Mt Barker (I think?), the main topic was the fact that the Marshall government is thinking about having a dedicated bus lane on the Hills Fwy. I'm not sure if the return of rail was ever really seriously discussed from what I've seen on the internet.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The Labor Party had a gab-fest the other night at Mt Barker (I think?), the main topic was the fact that the Marshall government is thinking about having a dedicated bus lane on the Hills Fwy. I'm not sure if the return of rail was ever really seriously discussed from what I've seen on the internet.
don_dunstan

I know a few of the organisers; I even produced the crappy flyer advertising the meeting. Nothing to do with the Labor Party.

But hey your research comes from the internet, so it must be true Razz
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Labor Party had a gab-fest the other night at Mt Barker (I think?), the main topic was the fact that the Marshall government is thinking about having a dedicated bus lane on the Hills Fwy. I'm not sure if the return of rail was ever really seriously discussed from what I've seen on the internet.

I know a few of the organisers; I even produced the crappy flyer advertising the meeting. Nothing to do with the Labor Party.

But hey your research comes from the internet, so it must be true Razz
bingley hall
Malinauskas tweeted out a picture of himself at the meeting talking in front of a meeting and said something about discussing the transport problems of the hills at a meeting he'd attended so I assumed they'd organised it. So shoot me.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Malinauskas tweeted out a picture of himself at the meeting talking in front of a meeting and said something about discussing the transport problems of the hills at a meeting he'd attended so I assumed they'd organised it. So shoot me.
don_dunstan

When the Revolution comes you can rely on it Razz

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