NT cattle's return to transport by rail could save producers $120 per head to SA, study finds

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 12 Sep 2021 15:27
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I would agree we all know on this site rail is much cheaper than road and cattle works well on rail in Queensland.

NT is the next logical choice.

Also better for the environment.

NT cattle's return to transport by rail could save producers $120 per head to SA, study finds

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  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What was the traffic to grope cross in Adelaide ?

Makes sense to put cattle back on rail and. Wry good the NTG is looking to expand rail.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
And one would trust this hick mob who don't even know if a photo in their study is flipped. Rolling Eyes
Be interesting to see the assumptions made (or not) in their study.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
What was the traffic to grope cross in Adelaide ?

Makes sense to put cattle back on rail and. Wry good the NTG is looking to expand rail.
freightgate
Wot?
'grope'
'Wry'
'NTG'
??????????

NTG in railway terms = 'not to go'.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What was the traffic to grope cross in Adelaide ?

Makes sense to put cattle back on rail and. Wry good the NTG is looking to expand rail.
freightgate

No more unloading at Gepps now so the cattle would need to go somewhere.  Was Gepps cross on SG?

  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Grope Cross? Are you talking about Parliament House on North Terrace?
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

I guess rail could work for livestock if they used containers, allowing ready transfer onto rail and then later easy transfer onto trucks for the last few km. Hopefully rail won’t be obliged to clean the containers, and will work out how to clean the wagons prior to re-blocking

The old NAR didn’t have that problem, with no continuous brakes until after WW2.

The map showing market  capture and loading points makes it look feasible. Good luck to them.

Note to gunzels; stand back after taking the photo of the loco…
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Depends on how much ORA and the other infrastructure owners (eg sidings, cattle yards etc) wants to charge them for the privilege.  Ie how hard is it going to be to coordinate?
  8502 Chief Train Controller

Depends on how much ORA and the other infrastructure owners (eg sidings, cattle yards etc) wants to charge them for the privilege.  Ie how hard is it going to be to coordinate?
james.au

The article is saying some facilities are already available for use now with a small clean-up.

Australia should get serious about rail.

If GWA are not interested bring Watco in to deliver the services.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I guess rail could work for livestock if they used containers, allowing ready transfer onto rail and then later easy transfer onto trucks for the last few km. Hopefully rail won’t be obliged to clean the containers, and will work out how to clean the wagons prior to re-blocking

The old NAR didn’t have that problem, with no continuous brakes until after WW2.

The map showing market  capture and loading points makes it look feasible. Good luck to them.

Note to gunzels; stand back after taking the photo of the loco…
hbedriver
The NAR was 'largely' vacuum brakes until 'relatively' recently in its life.
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

With due respect to the YM-Mundrabilla, one of us is wrong.

Looking at the COMRAILS site, Volume 5, page 50, and hoping that doing this doesn't infringe copyright, seems to refute the vacuum brakes. Might have been some air brakes, but appears a lot of unbraked vehicles (which I am sure the train examiners would hope included cattle wagons). And even after conversions, it appears plenty of vehicles remained unbraked. The relevant para below:-

Originally the locomotives and other rollingstock on the North Australia Railway ere equipped with Westinghouse brakes, or with handbrakes only. Those obtained during the war period from South Australian, Queensland and the Central Australia Railways, were similarly fitted. But the locomotives and other vehicles purchased from the Western Australian Government Railways were equipped with Vacuum Brakes, and, as these were in the majority, it was decided to standardise the braking power on this type. The conversions necessary totalled 91 vehicles fitted with vacuum brake complete, and 58 fitted with train pipe only.



  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Depends on how much ORA and the other infrastructure owners (eg sidings, cattle yards etc) wants to charge them for the privilege.  Ie how hard is it going to be to coordinate?

The article is saying some facilities are already available for use now with a small clean-up.

Australia should get serious about rail.

If GWA are not interested bring Watco in to deliver the services.
8502

GWA changed it's name 18 months ago.

Will you be persoanlly donating the cost of the new locos and wagons to Watco or just hoping they have enough fairy dust to make it happen?
  8502 Chief Train Controller


GWA changed it's name 18 months go.

Will you be persoanlly donating the cost of the new locos and wagons to Watco or just hoping they have enough fairy dust to make it happen?
bingley hall

What is GWA called now please?

Business invests in assets every day why should rail be any different?  The same tax advantages exist for rail as they do for other asset classes.    This all works with competent management on those businesses.

Maybe Watco (as they are investing in various assets at the moment) would do a better job or they could run the new GWA?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville

GWA changed it's name 18 months go.

Will you be persoanlly donating the cost of the new locos and wagons to Watco or just hoping they have enough fairy dust to make it happen?
What is GWA called now please?

Business invests in assets every day why should rail be any different?  The same tax advantages exist for rail as they do for other asset classes.    This all works with competent management on those businesses.

Maybe Watco (as they are investing in various assets at the moment) would do a better job or they could run the new GWA?
8502

One Rail Australia.

ORA are up for sale so if Watco have a spare couple of billion maybe they could make an offer?
  8502 Chief Train Controller

Why would you want them?

Sell me why anyone would want to buy Onerail?

Any sales person keen to make a living and working for onerail would be all over the cattle management to see what deal could be struck driving up revenue.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Depends on how much ORA and the other infrastructure owners (eg sidings, cattle yards etc) wants to charge them for the privilege.  Ie how hard is it going to be to coordinate?

The article is saying some facilities are already available for use now with a small clean-up.

Australia should get serious about rail.

If GWA are not interested bring Watco in to deliver the services.
8502
The problem is that aside from the Indian Pacific, no other operator has been able to run a sustainable train service on the Tarcoola-Darwin sector, ever.  PN, Aurizon, SCT, others have no services there.  It is ORA (new name for GWA) or none.  

Despite the access arrangement being reviewed by the SA ECOSA even recently, the lack of any non ORA services on this track suggests to me that no-one can make one work, and so ORA and its payment for doing things are the key stumbling block IMO.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why would you want them?

Sell me why anyone would want to buy Onerail?

Any sales person keen to make a living and working for onerail would be all over the cattle management to see what deal could be struck driving up revenue.
8502
'Driving up revenue'

At what cost?

If the traffic is on legs - don't touch it.
  Richard stroker Train Controller

Bevans,

I would like to correct your statement of " everyone on here knows rail is cheaper than road " . If you bothered to read the numerous threads on here by informed people , saying rail is losing to road because road is cheaper , you would not have made such an ill informed statement.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
With due respect to the YM-Mundrabilla, one of us is wrong.

Looking at the COMRAILS site, Volume 5, page 50, and hoping that doing this doesn't infringe copyright, seems to refute the vacuum brakes. Might have been some air brakes, but appears a lot of unbraked vehicles (which I am sure the train examiners would hope included cattle wagons). And even after conversions, it appears plenty of vehicles remained unbraked. The relevant para below:-

Originally the locomotives and other rollingstock on the North Australia Railway ere equipped with Westinghouse brakes, or with handbrakes only. Those obtained during the war period from South Australian, Queensland and the Central Australia Railways, were similarly fitted. But the locomotives and other vehicles purchased from the Western Australian Government Railways were equipped with Vacuum Brakes, and, as these were in the majority, it was decided to standardise the braking power on this type. The conversions necessary totalled 91 vehicles fitted with vacuum brake complete, and 58 fitted with train pipe only.
hbedriver
Thanks hbedriver.

Perhaps I should have been more precise in my wording of ‘largely’ and ‘relatively’. I don’t think that either of us is necessarily right or wrong. Nothing in relation to the old North Australia Railway was ever that clear cut.

My understanding is that (presumably/perhaps/maybe) the old SAR locomotives which opened the line were Westinghouse fitted. Not that it would have been of any use other than as an engine brake as for many years it was a bit like the Poms - engine and brakevan brakes only. It might have been just tender and van?

As you have said come WW2 and the mismatch of rolling stock obtained at the time, vacuum brakes were adopted and the two NSUs (63 and 64) were so fitted.

Come the 1960s and the Frances Creek ore trains, vacuum was abandoned for Westinghouse but, apart from the ore wagons, there were still numbers of ‘pipes only’ in ordinary traffic.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bevans,

I would like to correct your statement of " everyone on here knows rail is cheaper than road " . If you bothered to read the numerous threads on here by informed people , saying rail is losing to road because road is cheaper , you would not have made such an ill informed statement.
Richard stroker

There are various reports including those form customers where using rail is cheaper than road.   Accept your viewpoint but staying with my statement. Smile
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Thanks for the remarks, YM-Mundrabilla.

The old railway was certainly “Rafferty’s Rules”.

Funny, I’m currently reading Xavier Herbert’s book, “Poor Fellow My Country”. In it he describes running of a train to Darwin, pre-WW2, where the Communist driver was determined to remove a vehicle; he managed to brake a coupling in running, forcing them to shunt it off. He describes the railway with some apparent knowledge.

And I’ve always admired Communist train drivers.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks for the remarks, YM-Mundrabilla.

The old railway was certainly “Rafferty’s Rules”.

Funny, I’m currently reading Xavier Herbert’s book, “Poor Fellow My Country”. In it he describes running of a train to Darwin, pre-WW2, where the Communist driver was determined to remove a vehicle; he managed to brake a coupling in running, forcing them to shunt it off. He describes the railway with some apparent knowledge.

And I’ve always admired Communist train drivers.
hbedriver
You should have worked with some of those who spent too many Wet Seasons on the NAR.
  8502 Chief Train Controller

Have we seen any further work on this idea with @Aurizon taking over 1rail?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Have we seen any further work on this idea with @Aurizon taking over 1rail?
8502

Ring up Aurizon and ask them. That's the only way you'll get an answer.

Takeover not until around April next year.

I doubt it's a priority for anyone at the moment.

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