Welcome to Trump town

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by bevans on 17 Feb 2022 13:11
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
392,000 Americans have died of COVID19 since the election of Joe Biden - do you blame Joe Biden for that?

You're all over the shop, Mike.

Perhaps I'm all over the shop as I'm agreeing with your statement Shocked

392,000 mostly RWNJ's have died of COVID-19 since Pres. Biden came to office and many of those RWNJ's died not believing they even had COVID because their media of choice played down having the innoculations that would have saved them.

Moreover as we can see below:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/21/world/biden-omicron-speech

But will the RWNJ's do the right thing to save themselves...on past actions, highly unlikely.

Again you can lead a horse to water...

So go right ahead and support the RWNJ's right to not protect themselves.

Mike.
You don't have a shred of evidence to support the statement:

"mostly RWNJ's have died of COVID-19 since Pres. Biden came to office"

You're one of the few people that I've met whose response to being caught out supporting a lie is to spin an even bigger lie with even less evidence as cover for the first lie.
don_dunstan

Bad luck Rep from SA, the facts don't suit your narrative. You must be the only RWNJ not to know this. A simple Google search:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/trump-voters-counties-more-likely-die-covid-study

No doubt you won't believe it...but frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Mike.

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  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Bad luck Rep from SA, the facts don't suit your narrative. You must be the only RWNJ not to know this. A simple Google search:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/trump-voters-counties-more-likely-die-covid-study

No doubt you won't believe it...but frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Mike.
The Vinelander
It's just that you've been so consistently wrong in the last week it's really difficult to take anything you say seriously. I mean, you couldn't get the journalist's name right in your trumpeting of the righteousness of the ABC's defence against News Ltd - and you also didn't appear to know that she'd also authored the two-part Four Corners on the Steele Dossier - all of which turned out to be fake.

Frankly, Mike, you make getting it wrong into an art-form.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Evidence ??

RWNJ is a subjective name.

I'm inclined to agree with Mike that refusal to take the jab is a clear identification of RWNJ.

Covid is now the largest killer in USA, and there is no excuse to refuse a free jab. They even boo Trump 'cos he did the right thing.

As for evidence, recent numbers,
160000-unvaccinated-americans-died-from-covid-19-since-june

I suppose June was picked as as start, being when the jab roll out began to be have an effect.

cheers
John
I've got no intention of dragging the group psychosis and mass hysteria of the COVID19 thread into yet another thread - but you were completely wrong right at the outset. COVID19 is NOT the 'largest killer' in the United States, heart disease (659,000) and cancer (599,000) are still way ahead of COVID19 fatalities in the USA.

Heart disease is caused by lifestyle - 40% of American adults are obese. That's preventable but too hard for any government to tackle so more people are going to continue to die of that than from COVID19 (even at the height of the 'pandemic').
don_dunstan
So I am a couple of months out
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254560/leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us-average-number-daily/

That's a lot more current than your trotted out ancient history from 2019
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Evidence ??

RWNJ is a subjective name.

I'm inclined to agree with Mike that refusal to take the jab is a clear identification of RWNJ.

Covid is now the largest killer in USA, and there is no excuse to refuse a free jab. They even boo Trump 'cos he did the right thing.

As for evidence, recent numbers,
160000-unvaccinated-americans-died-from-covid-19-since-june

I suppose June was picked as as start, being when the jab roll out began to be have an effect.

cheers
John
I've got no intention of dragging the group psychosis and mass hysteria of the COVID19 thread into yet another thread - but you were completely wrong right at the outset. COVID19 is NOT the 'largest killer' in the United States, heart disease (659,000) and cancer (599,000) are still way ahead of COVID19 fatalities in the USA.

Heart disease is caused by lifestyle - 40% of American adults are obese. That's preventable but too hard for any government to tackle so more people are going to continue to die of that than from COVID19 (even at the height of the 'pandemic').
don_dunstan
Don is correct on this one, Covid in the USA in 2020 killed 345,0000, Heart Disease 589K, Cancer over 600k.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
And he seems to have moved on from his bat-sniffles delusion as he admits that Covid, whilst not number 1, is a major cause of death. Well done Don! But back to President Trump. He really has done a good deed here, many Americans will now get vaccinated because of his comments. The QAnon diehards will remain in their conspiracy inspired world, but the more reasonable Trump supporters who have been hesistant will now do the right thing and get the vaccine. Well done Don!
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
And he seems to have moved on from his bat-sniffles delusion as he admits that Covid, whilst not number 1, is a major cause of death. Well done Don! But back to President Trump. He really has done a good deed here, many Americans will now get vaccinated because of his comments. The QAnon diehards will remain in their conspiracy inspired world, but the more reasonable Trump supporters who have been hesistant will now do the right thing and get the vaccine. Well done Don!
billybaxter
I've got news for you, Billy - the mRNA injections contain nano-particles that make you want to become a Freemason and subscribe to the principles of brotherly love, relief and truth. Dib-dib-dib, dob-dob-dob. That funny look a bloke gave you at Aldi the other day? He's a Freemason. He was waiting for the secret hand-shake.

You'll be riding goats before you know it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Bad luck Rep from SA, the facts don't suit your narrative. You must be the only RWNJ not to know this. A simple Google search:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/trump-voters-counties-more-likely-die-covid-study

No doubt you won't believe it...but frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Mike.
It's just that you've been so consistently wrong in the last week it's really difficult to take anything you say seriously. I mean, you couldn't get the journalist's name right in your trumpeting of the righteousness of the ABC's defence against News Ltd - and you also didn't appear to know that she'd also authored the two-part Four Corners on the Steele Dossier - all of which turned out to be fake.

Frankly, Mike, you make getting it wrong into an art-form.
don_dunstan

...and that's the best you can manage. My work here with you is done.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Bad luck Rep from SA, the facts don't suit your narrative. You must be the only RWNJ not to know this. A simple Google search:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/trump-voters-counties-more-likely-die-covid-study

No doubt you won't believe it...but frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Mike.
It's just that you've been so consistently wrong in the last week it's really difficult to take anything you say seriously. I mean, you couldn't get the journalist's name right in your trumpeting of the righteousness of the ABC's defence against News Ltd - and you also didn't appear to know that she'd also authored the two-part Four Corners on the Steele Dossier - all of which turned out to be fake.

Frankly, Mike, you make getting it wrong into an art-form.

...and that's the best you can manage. My work here with you is done.

M.
The Vinelander
Time for a Xanax and a gin, hey Mike.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
And he seems to have moved on from his bat-sniffles delusion as he admits that Covid, whilst not number 1, is a major cause of death. Well done Don! But back to President Trump. He really has done a good deed here, many Americans will now get vaccinated because of his comments. The QAnon diehards will remain in their conspiracy inspired world, but the more reasonable Trump supporters who have been hesistant will now do the right thing and get the vaccine. Well done Don!
I've got news for you, Billy - the mRNA injections contain nano-particles that make you want to become a Freemason and subscribe to the principles of brotherly love, relief and truth. Dib-dib-dib, dob-dob-dob. That funny look a bloke gave you at Aldi the other day? He's a Freemason. He was waiting for the secret hand-shake.

You'll be riding goats before you know it.
don_dunstan
Even a compliment elicits nothing from Don but foul invective laden with sexual innuendo. The man's a loon!
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
I've got news for you, Billy - the mRNA injections contain nano-particles that make you want to become a Freemason and subscribe to the principles of brotherly love, relief and truth. Dib-dib-dib, dob-dob-dob. That funny look a bloke gave you at Aldi the other day? He's a Freemason. He was waiting for the secret hand-shake.

You'll be riding goats before you know it.
Even a compliment elicits nothing from Don but foul invective laden with sexual innuendo. The man's a loon!
billybaxter
"Goat rider" is traditional slang for a member of the Freemasons - even the Masonic Order themselves acknowledge it:



You really have sex on the brain, don't you Billy. Only you could interpret 'goat rider' sexually you smutty little boy...!
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Biden administration hoping to stimulate away any recession that might be on the cards by deferring public student loan payments further - NBC News;

The Biden administration announced Wednesday that the moratorium on federal student loan payments would be extended through May 1 as the highly transmissible omicron variant of the coronavirus poses a new threat to the economy.

In a statement, President Joe Biden said "millions of student loan borrowers are still coping with the impacts of the pandemic and need some more time before resuming payments."

The White House maintained for months that Biden would not extend the pause beyond the Jan. 31 deadline, warning borrowers that they should be prepared to resume payments in February even as Covid case numbers increased and as inflation concerns gripped the country. The administration's language began to soften in recent days as the omicron variant spread rapidly, with White House press secretary Jen Psaki telling reporters Tuesday that Biden had "not made a decision yet" about whether to issue another extension.

Some Democrats have also argued that it would be a poor political decision for Biden to restart student loan payments — which have been paused for nearly two years — ahead of a difficult midterm elections year.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., tweeted last week that it was "delusional" to believe Democrats could get re-elected without acting on student debt relief, among other priorities.

The moratorium began in March 2020, when former President Donald Trump signed into law the CARES Act, which paused payments through September 2020 and eliminated interest rates for the roughly 42 million borrowers.

Not re-starting student loan payments will allow an extra $16.8 billion to remain in the US economy - yet another form of stimulus.
don_dunstan
That's great, but this is the Trump thread.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Biden administration hoping to stimulate away any recession that might be on the cards by deferring public student loan payments further - NBC News;

The Biden administration announced Wednesday that the moratorium on federal student loan payments would be extended through May 1 as the highly transmissible omicron variant of the coronavirus poses a new threat to the economy.

In a statement, President Joe Biden said "millions of student loan borrowers are still coping with the impacts of the pandemic and need some more time before resuming payments."

The White House maintained for months that Biden would not extend the pause beyond the Jan. 31 deadline, warning borrowers that they should be prepared to resume payments in February even as Covid case numbers increased and as inflation concerns gripped the country. The administration's language began to soften in recent days as the omicron variant spread rapidly, with White House press secretary Jen Psaki telling reporters Tuesday that Biden had "not made a decision yet" about whether to issue another extension.

Some Democrats have also argued that it would be a poor political decision for Biden to restart student loan payments — which have been paused for nearly two years — ahead of a difficult midterm elections year.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., tweeted last week that it was "delusional" to believe Democrats could get re-elected without acting on student debt relief, among other priorities.

The moratorium began in March 2020, when former President Donald Trump signed into law the CARES Act, which paused payments through September 2020 and eliminated interest rates for the roughly 42 million borrowers.

Not re-starting student loan payments will allow an extra $16.8 billion to remain in the US economy - yet another form of stimulus.
That's great, but this is the Trump thread.
lsrailfan
So it is - I'll move it.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Fact, Donald Trump used to wander into the Miss Universe changerooms unannounced, he also used to boast about it, fact!
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

I have no trouble believing that Trump is a creep.  I also have no trouble believing that many (if not most) other powerful politicians and captains of industry and media are also creeps, if not worse.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I have no trouble believing that Trump is a creep.  I also have no trouble believing that many (if not most) other powerful politicians and captains of industry and media are also creeps, if not worse.
Sonofagunzel

Worse than Trump Question

Highly unlikely.

M.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

Worse than Trump?  Very likely. Trump was calling out Epstein long before it was fashionable. That doesn’t make him any kind of hero - just means he probably didn’t participate.

Also, Trump announces what he does, and boasts about more than he does. Ever hear Weinstein, Epstein, Saville, Cosby or Clinton publicly boast about what they were up to?

To be clear, I offer only my intuition, I don’t pretend that is is proof.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Worse than Trump?  Very likely. Trump was calling out Epstein long before it was fashionable. That doesn’t make him any kind of hero - just means he probably didn’t participate.

Also, Trump announces what he does, and boasts about more than he does. Ever hear Weinstein, Epstein, Saville, Cosby or Clinton publicly boast about what they were up to?

To be clear, I offer only my intuition, I don’t pretend that is is proof.
Sonofagunzel

Trump may as you say have called out some despicable behaviour but he never called this out and did all he could, but failed, to stop information being presented to the Insurrection Committee which totally implicates him.

There is now proof that other members of Trumps family urged him, multiple times to get on TV and stop the insurrection. Obviously, Trump was content to watch on TV whilst his VP, Pence and other Democrats were being threatened with being hanged and police also died in the line of duty during the insurrection.

The texts prove he did nothing but watch it unfold on TV. Interview with Republican, Liz Cheney,



https://youtu.be/GmC-KFGB9yI

Mike.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
For as long as Trump keeps on bleating that the Presidential Election was rigged (and he still is) his credibility remains at zero as far as I'm concerned.
That alone should be enough to get him a nice line in movement-restricting waistcoats, and somewhere secure to live whether he likes it or not.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

Trump may as you say have called out some despicable behaviour but he never called this out and did all he could, but failed, to stop information being presented to the Insurrection Committee which totally implicates him.

There is now proof that other members of Trumps family urged him, multiple times to get on TV and stop the insurrection. Obviously, Trump was content to watch on TV whilst his VP, Pence and other Democrats were being threatened with being hanged and police also died in the line of duty during the insurrection.

The texts prove he did nothing but watch it unfold on TV. Interview with Republican, Liz Cheney,
The Vinelander


I want to be clear here that I'm not having a go at you.

If you have the time and inclination, you might want to do a little digging to see if what you know from the media is the full story.  For example, just focussing on Jan 6:

1.  The rioters organised themselves on Facebook in the days before Jan 6, before Trump even started delivering the speech that everyone is saying instigated the riot. Is there any actual evidence that Trump or any other federal Republican politicians were involved?

2. Even though there was ample indication that there might be trouble, the authorities were woefully underprepared in terms of manpower, contingency planning and chains of command.  Trump was not directly or indirectly in charge of or responsible for this - Democrats and independent agencies were.

3. Trump started speaking at 12pm on January 6 at a rally at the Ellipse - about 2.5km away from the Capitol - about 30 mins walk to the Capitol building.  He finished speaking at 1.10pm.

4. During his speech, he called on his supporters to go to the Capitol building and make their voices heard "peacefully and patriotically".

5.  The rioters gathered at the Capitol building by 12.30pm.  The violence started at the Capitol at 1pm.  So the riot was started by people who were not at Trump's rally.  Further, it started before Trump said "fight like hell" and "we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue", which is the clip that the media keeps playing as evidence that he instigated the violence.  Further, if you read his speech, it's clear that the word "fight" referred to politics, not violence.

6.  The Capitol building was first breached by rioters at 2.15pm.  Trump tweeted at 2.38pm, 3pm, (by video) at 4pm and again at 6pm calling for the protestors to be peaceful, non-violent and to go home.  In that context, why are the texts urging Trump to speak out so damning in your view?

7. Sometime after 6pm and before 8pm, the Capitol Building is finally cleared of rioters.

8. At 7pm, Facebook and Twitter delete Trump's posts, because he is still claiming the election was stolen/rigged.

9. At 8pm, Congress resumes and eventually ratifies the election results at 3.40am in the morning.

10. In relation to the deaths of the police officers - do you know their names, what time/date they died, and their cause of death?  Find out - you may be surprised.

11.  Ask yourself why there is a major and high profile inquiry into political involvement in the Jan 6th riot and not into the BLM riots.  Which caused more death, destruction and fear?  Which were more openly encouraged/supported/condoned by US politicians?  Why did the Democrats resist an investigation into why the security arrangements on Jan 6th were so woeful?  Do you think Trump might be resisting the inquiry because the inquiry is a political stunt trying to disqualify Trump from running in 2024?

My source for the timeline is the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/capitol-insurrection-visual-timeline/

To be very clear, I'm not suggesting Trump was blameless - far from it.  He failed on so many levels.  He failed to be statesmanlike when he lost.  He continued to use inflammatory rhetoric on and in the days and months leading up to Jan 6.  He failed to prove any of the voter fraud he was claiming.  He failed to protect election integrity.  He failed to address social media platform bias and to fix the law that allowed big tech to censor political discussions without repercussions - and as a result he was de-platformed himself while he was still President.  He failed to address media bias and bad faith (although he at least tried).  He failed to effectively hold key Democrats to account for stoking the BLM riots.  He failed to make the right legal arguments at the right time to show the Dems had changed voting rules illegally.  He put incompetents and nut-jobs in charge of his election legal team. His post election conduct cost the Republicans the Senate majority because he lost two seats in Georgia they should have won.  He shouldn't have tried to pressure Pence and others to overturn the election.  He should have conceded, but he was too full of himself to admit he lost.  The list goes on.  

I'm not even saying that the above points will or even should change your mind about anything.  

All I'm saying is that we aren't given anything like a fair representation of the facts by the media - whether it's CNN or FOX or ABC, Sky, DW, Young Turks, Facebook, Twitter, or whatever, or any of the Australian Media for that matter (they're bad but not as bad as the US media thankfully).  

And finally, I of course have my own biases and gaps in knowledge.  I'm happy to have a civil discussion and be proved wrong on any point.  I like being wrong, it means I've learned something.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Talking of fair representation by the media, many have simply abandoned MSM.  Joe Rogan has by far the highest viewer/listenership today:

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Trump may as you say have called out some despicable behaviour but he never called this out and did all he could, but failed, to stop information being presented to the Insurrection Committee which totally implicates him.

There is now proof that other members of Trumps family urged him, multiple times to get on TV and stop the insurrection. Obviously, Trump was content to watch on TV whilst his VP, Pence and other Democrats were being threatened with being hanged and police also died in the line of duty during the insurrection.

The texts prove he did nothing but watch it unfold on TV. Interview with Republican, Liz Cheney,


I want to be clear here that I'm not having a go at you.

If you have the time and inclination, you might want to do a little digging to see if what you know from the media is the full story.  For example, just focussing on Jan 6:
Sonofagunzel

That's fine and no malice was intended.

Nevertheless the official Inquiry, evenly and equally auspiced by Democrats and by probably the only sensible remaining Republicans will be ongoing until it reaches its conclusion. Then it will be up to the judiciary to act on the findings.

Because the Inquiry is legitimate and obviously not a political beat up, I'm happy to follow its findings and anything startling, if it's possible to still be startled by anything that disgraced person says or does these days, I'm happy to post here.

Mike.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

That's fine and no malice was intended.

Nevertheless the official Inquiry, evenly and equally auspiced by Democrats and by probably the only sensible remaining Republicans will be ongoing until it reaches its conclusion. Then it will be up to the judiciary to act on the findings.

Because the Inquiry is legitimate and obviously not a political beat up, I'm happy to follow its findings and anything startling, if it's possible to still be startled by anything that disgraced person says or does these days, I'm happy to post here.

Mike.
The Vinelander


Fair enough.

Personally, even if the inquiry is truly legitimate and  bipartisan (I'm not sure about that - haven't looked for myself at who is on it and what the final terms of reference were), this does not mean that it will be fair and disinterested.  Democrats seem to fear Trump 2024 (personally I think he is the Dem's greatest asset), and mainstream Republicans either want a shot at the presidency themselves or want Trump gone so that he doesn't split the conservative vote, handing victory to the Democrats.  Who knows, maybe the Dems are just trying to keep him in the public eye and keep the negative media coverage flowing, but still hoping that he will run in 2024!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Adam Kinzinger, the other 'sensible' Republican who has not bowed to Trumpism and the Big Lie, says a few words and home truths about his disappointment with the members of his party.



https://youtu.be/NDBCE8M_vs0
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Frankly, Mike, you make getting it wrong into an art-form.
”don_dunstan”
Whereas you continually get it wrong and just look a bit silly.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

Trump definitely had his shortcomings but he was really a force to be reckoned with in terms of international affairs. Brilliant in fact.
"Don Dunstan"


I quite agree - on some issues Trump's unpredictability and American exceptionalism were great assets.  North Korea, Middle East, border security, WHO, NATO funding, were all topics in which I think he did really well, at least from a US point of view.

Other aspects perhaps less successful - climate change might be an example.

Thoughts?

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