As for Geelong, that is a long way off until they sort out Wyndham Vale and Werribee.
WDV has sucked the life out of any benefit RRL gave to Geelong frequency and speed. To be seen if 9car VLo are any help.
Back to the drawing board. HSR ? MM2 ? More $billions to save 10minutes.?

John what is WDV?

The crowding issues on the Geelong line at Tarneit were raised on Q and A (ABC) last night.

As for Geelong, that is a long way off until they sort out Wyndham Vale and Werribee.
WDV has sucked the life out of any benefit RRL gave to Geelong frequency and speed. To be seen if 9car VLo are any help.
Back to the drawing board. HSR ? MM2 ? More $billions to save 10minutes.?

John what is WDV?

The crowding issues on the Geelong line at Tarneit were raised on Q and A (ABC) last night.

Oops, I meant WVL. Should have checked the code.

Sorry people, vline are sticking to deisel until something useful comes along. 25kv (or 1500V) hybrid ain't it.

cheersJohn
-justarider

That's the point of buying dual-mode trains (diesel-electric plus electric), ie the class 800s in the UK. As money comes available, you continue to electrify the lines as needed, spending less and less on diesel each year. Because the trains can do both, you can keep one seat journeys to all destinations whilst using both modes of power. Win/Win.

The problem is that the VLocity trains really should've been dual-mode, at least the ones ordered since 2010. Massive failure of policy, especially since RRL was announced.I said " usefull".

Dual mode has been around for 100 years, with limited appeal. It is OLD thinking.

You keep thinking OZ will ever have an extensive electric network like UK/Europe. Fantasy ! Too expensive for relative small use.

Just like wind/solar etc. is replacing coal, so too are emerging solutions for transport. Battery/Fuel cell/ brain farts.

You keep thinking OZ will ever have an extensive electric network like UK/Europe. Fantasy ! Too expensive for relative small use.

Really?

Only 38% of the UK network is sparked. However.

NSW has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
QLD has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
Hell even WA's sparks network is more extensive.

It is ridiculous to have Ardeer to Wyndhamvale served by 3 Car 1990's vintage DMU's. If we are preparing to sink close to $30 Billion on the first stage of SRL surely we can spark to Bacchus Marsh and Geelong?

Steve Bracks has a lot to answer for this.


Mannie

You keep thinking OZ will ever have an extensive electric network like UK/Europe. Fantasy ! Too expensive for relative small use.

Really?

Only 38% of the UK network is sparked. However.

NSW has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
QLD has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
Hell even WA's sparks network is more extensive.

It is ridiculous to have Ardeer to Wyndhamvale served by 3 Car 1990's vintage DMU's. If we are preparing to sink close to $30 Billion on the first stage of SRL surely we can spark to Bacchus Marsh and Geelong?

Steve Bracks has a lot to answer for this.


Mannie

Yes really!  UK counts 16,000km track and near 2 Billion passengers pa. About the same size as just Victoria.
5,000km electric is 20% more than the entire Victoria network.

And UK are only rated 8th amongst Europe.

OZ are pinhead on top of a basketball by comparison. Victoria even more so.

QLD and NSW are right to be proud of their achievements, but still small potatoes.

You keep thinking OZ will ever have an extensive electric network like UK/Europe. Fantasy ! Too expensive for relative small use.

Really?

Only 38% of the UK network is sparked. However.

NSW has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
QLD has a more extensive electric network than Vic.
Hell even WA's sparks network is more extensive.

It is ridiculous to have Ardeer to Wyndhamvale served by 3 Car 1990's vintage DMU's. If we are preparing to sink close to $30 Billion on the first stage of SRL surely we can spark to Bacchus Marsh and Geelong?

Steve Bracks has a lot to answer for this.


MannieYes really!  UK counts 16,000km track and near 2 Billion passengers pa. About the same size as just Victoria.
5,000km electric is 20% more than the entire Victoria network.

And UK are only rated 8th amongst Europe.

OZ are pinhead on top of a basketball by comparison. Victoria even more so.

QLD and NSW are right to be proud of their achievements, but still small potatoes.

The point I am making is that Victoria can't even compare to NSW & QLD and even WA's extent of electrification is greater.

A legacy network that what Victoria has.


Mannie

You are right Mannie Victoria needs to get on with removing diesel trains to the major regional centres and powering the system with renewables.

As for Geelong, that is a long way off until they sort out Wyndham Vale and Werribee.
WDV has sucked the life out of any benefit RRL gave to Geelong frequency and speed. To be seen if 9car VLo are any help.
Back to the drawing board. HSR ? MM2 ? More $billions to save 10minutes.?

John what is WDV?

The crowding issues on the Geelong line at Tarneit were raised on Q and A (ABC) last night.

Yeah like that could not be foreseen. Due to the complete lack of planning and foresight given by the Steve Bracks Government. When the Feds offered the money for the Regional Rail link, they took it provided minimal funding so that all RRL was is a bypass service to Geelong that provided a rudimentary metro service to Tarneit and Wyndhamvale.


Mannie

As for Geelong, that is a long way off until they sort out Wyndham Vale and Werribee.
WDV has sucked the life out of any benefit RRL gave to Geelong frequency and speed. To be seen if 9car VLo are any help.
Back to the drawing board. HSR ? MM2 ? More $billions to save 10minutes.?

John what is WDV?

The crowding issues on the Geelong line at Tarneit were raised on Q and A (ABC) last night.

Yeah like that could not be foreseen. Due to the complete lack of planning and foresight given by the Steve Bracks Government. When the Feds offered the money for the Regional Rail link, they took it provided minimal funding so that all RRL was is a bypass service to Geelong that provided a rudimentary metro service to Tarneit and Wyndhamvale.


Mannie

And what do you mean by "unforeseen".

The Victoria Transport Plan 2008
goes into length that the 2036 projection for growth at Wyndham and Truganina would be huge. The plan was written to address that from many aspects, choo choos being just one
Many of the items discussed are with us now.
 EastLink,
 NorthEast Link,
 Sth Morang,
 MM1,
 Deer Park bypass,
 Geelong bypass,
 Bellarine hwy,
 Ring Road,
 Outer Ring Road - still far out for current need,
 Westgate Tunnel,
 Western Highway -woops, still arguing about sacred trees,
 RRL,
 Carolyn Springs, Williams Landing.
 Double the train fleet.  
 Sunbury electrify,
 Melton double & electricify - half so far,
 LX removals - that is now massive

The reality that this growth is with us now, 15 years early, shows how fast the world moves ahead.
Should you stick the head in sand , de-scope for 4 years and do nothing, we end up where we are.

A challenge, predict what Vic will look like in 2050. We can come back in 15 years and see how woefully far off the mark we are - wiil experts or the dart board be better at it.

cheers
John

As for Geelong, that is a long way off until they sort out Wyndham Vale and Werribee.
WDV has sucked the life out of any benefit RRL gave to Geelong frequency and speed. To be seen if 9car VLo are any help.
Back to the drawing board. HSR ? MM2 ? More $billions to save 10minutes.?

John what is WDV?

The crowding issues on the Geelong line at Tarneit were raised on Q and A (ABC) last night.

Yeah like that could not be foreseen. Due to the complete lack of planning and foresight given by the Steve Bracks Government. When the Feds offered the money for the Regional Rail link, they took it provided minimal funding so that all RRL was is a bypass service to Geelong that provided a rudimentary metro service to Tarneit and Wyndhamvale.


Mannie

And what do you mean by "unforeseen".

The 2008 VTP  https://web.archive.org/web/20120325004350/https://transport.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/31342/vtp.pdf
goes into length that the 2036 projection for growth at Wyndham and Truganina would be huge. The plan was written to address that from many aspects, choo choos being just one
Many of the items discussed are with us now.
 EastLink,
 NorthEast Link,
 Sth Morang,
 MM1,
 Deer Park bypass,
 Geelong bypass,
 Bellarine hwy,
 Ring Road,
 Outer Ring Road - still far out for current need,
 Westgate Tunnel,
 Western Highway -woops, still arguing about sacred trees,
 RRL,
 Carolyn Springs, Williams Landing.
 Double the train fleet.  
 Sunbury electrify,
 Melton double & electricify - half so far,
 LX removals - that is now massive

The reality that this growth is with us now, 15 years early, shows how fast the world moves ahead.
Should you stick the head in sand , de-scope for 4 years and do nothing, we end up where we are.

A challenge, predict what Vic will look like in 2050. We can come back in 15 years and see how woefully far off the mark we are - wiil experts or the dart board be better at it.

cheers
John

Yeah like that could not be foreseen.

I was being sarcastic. I am only addressing the RRL. Which was inadequate in 2014 for the growth of Tarneit, Truganina and Wyndhamvale. A 3 Car DMU service running every 10 - 20 mins was never going to suffice.


Mannie

Yeah like that could not be foreseen.

I was being sarcastic. I am only addressing the RRL. Which was inadequate in 2014 for the growth of Tarneit, Truganina and Wyndhamvale. A 3 Car DMU service running every 10 - 20 mins was never going to suffice.


Mannie

Of course was inadequate in 2014. Wasn't even open.  My turn for sarcasm

So how are the 9car VLos actually going, and the 8 trains between 7am and 8am?.  
More of the former,? 'cause no room for the latter.

cheers
John

The issue of EMU v DMU for that series of rolling stock is another case in point about the lack of planning. Why is tarneit and WV still running diesels as pointed out by others ?

Geelong should have been electrified with the RRL was built. Victoria is still ordering more diesel trains.

The issue of EMU v DMU for that series of rolling stock is another case in point about the lack of planning. Why is tarneit and WV still running diesels as pointed out by others ?

Geelong should have been electrified with the RRL was built. Victoria is still ordering more diesel trains.

But why would an EMU be any better.?
Same capacity as a DMU, with same limitation of how many trains per hour.

If you think Geelong is ripe for a Metro style squeeze box,  there's a bridge in Sydney on sale.
Wyndham Vale (and Melton) will eventually have to give in to Metro, and boy won't they squeal about the backward step to discomfort.

The issue of EMU v DMU for that series of rolling stock is another case in point about the lack of planning. Why is tarneit and WV still running diesels as pointed out by others ?

Geelong should have been electrified with the RRL was built. Victoria is still ordering more diesel trains.

But why would an EMU be any better.?
Same capacity as a DMU, with same limitation of how many trains per hour.

If you think Geelong is ripe for a Metro style squeeze box,  there's a bridge in Sydney on sale.
Wyndham Vale (and Melton) will eventually have to give in to Metro, and boy won't they squeal about the backward step to discomfort.

But why would an EMU be any better.?
Same capacity as a DMU, with same limitation of how many trains per hour.

Yes it would be with better acceleration than a DMU. Moreover more train builders build EMU's than DMU's. Bombardier/Alstom only build DMU's for the Victorian market nowadays. All their other products are Electric or Bi-mode. That's why we are paying over the odds for a 1990's vintage train.

If you think Geelong is ripe for a Metro style squeeze box,  there's a bridge in Sydney on sale.

What? So the only EMU's on the market or are being built a metro style trains? Do not limit your thinking on what can be provided for Geelong based on what is on the Victorian network which with the exception of the HCMT and the Comeng (which life-expired) are utter garbage.

Wyndham Vale (and Melton) will eventually have to give in to Metro, and boy won't they squeal about the backward step to discomfort.

Some of those V/Locitys built for short distance commuter runs are pretty ordinary comfort wise. The V/Locity isn't that great a train.

If you can point to any major established high frequency commuter rail network that uses DMU's I am all ears. Its no wonder Victoria is at least 10 years behind NSW.


Mannie

Yeah like that could not be foreseen.

I was being sarcastic. I am only addressing the RRL. Which was inadequate in 2014 for the growth of Tarneit, Truganina and Wyndhamvale. A 3 Car DMU service running every 10 - 20 mins was never going to suffice.


Mannie

Of course was inadequate in 2014. Wasn't even open.  My turn for sarcasm

So how are the 9car VLos actually going, and the 8 trains between 7am and 8am?.  
More of the former,? 'cause no room for the latter.

cheers
John

Sorry 2015, still inadequate. 8 Trains between 7 and 8am. So? 9 car v/los, what a joke.

Victorian Railways. Still stuck in the 1990's.


Mannie

Yeah like that could not be foreseen.

I was being sarcastic. I am only addressing the RRL. Which was inadequate in 2014 for the growth of Tarneit, Truganina and Wyndhamvale. A 3 Car DMU service running every 10 - 20 mins was never going to suffice.


Mannie

Of course was inadequate in 2014. Wasn't even open.  My turn for sarcasm

So how are the 9car VLos actually going, and the 8 trains between 7am and 8am?.  
More of the former,? 'cause no room for the latter.

cheers
John

Sorry 2015, still inadequate. 8 Trains between 7 and 8am. So? 9 car v/los, what a joke.

Victorian Railways. Still stuck in the 1990's.


Mannie

9 car v/los, what a joke.

So they are still packing in with 9 cars. Or not enough of them. Or you don't know and just making smeg up.?

Is the answer more units rather than longer units ?

Is the answer more units rather than longer units ?

Not more units. RRL at peak is chcockers. They alternate skip as it is to keep things moving.

Hence more pax per train. More cars seated, is preferable to standing like sardines.

cheers
John