Triangle at Bororen

 
  Stuart41 Station Master

Location: Hervey Bay
I noticed the triangle at Bororen (on the north coast line) for the first time yesterday.

Can someone tell me - apart from the obvious reason - why QR would need a triangle there?

Stuart

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  Expost Chief Commissioner

Probably from the days when the country depended a lot more on rail transport for freight, and Bororen had a more substantial rail prescence that what it does now.

These days, it would be useful for turning track machines, ballast trains, ect.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I think has its wired and on a triangle with a modern track setup it was used to spell cattle/sheep/pigs. Have to wonder what sort of life its likely have to going forward, removal is probably just a matter of time?

Regards
Shane
  scubs Chief Commissioner

Location: Geebung, Brisbane
QR wouldn't waste the money to remove it. The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
  Johnmc Moderator

Location: Cloncurry, Queensland
Bororen was - at least when I was in the freight office - a "spelling" point for long distance livestock trains going south.  Whether it still is or not, I'm not sure.

The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
"scubs"


The *what* still exists, kind sir?  I have no idea what you're talking about. Razz
  Centralvulcan Train Controller

The "Wye" US usage sometimes called a reversing triangle at Thorneside is certainly still in place.... a quick look at Google Earth confirms this.  "Wye"s are an alternative way to a turntable for  turning an engine or train - if the back shunt is long enough.   Not sure of other ones in Australia but there were a number in NZ.
  rowdy1975 Junior Train Controller

Haven't heard of livestock trains of late spelling at Bororen,  usually if they need spelling thses days heading south we use Bajool.  
  Not sure of other ones in Australia but there were a number in NZ.
"Centralvulcan"

Not sure about these wye things, but plenty of angles. Smile
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
QR wouldn't waste the money to remove it. The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
"scubs"


If its redudent to needs then next time extensive work is done it will be removed. However QR are the kings of Y's angles what ever. NSW pretty much abandoned turning in the 70's or earlier and Tas only has turning angles at a few major remaining junctions (7  I can think of). QR still turns whole trains. Even Chilligoe has a full length train angle and every TT must be turned to return to Brisbane.

About a year back I walked over to Bororen and it look long out of use. QR removed the Cattle loading yard and some track at Mt Larcom. The track has been marked for removal for some time, but they use it to store coal wagons everynow and then. Certainly the O/H was removed about 7 years back.

Regards
Shane
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
"scubs"
Presumably this was rebuilt for the re-opening in 1982 or for the extension to Wellington point in 1986.  I can't imagine it survived the 1960 closure!

Given that trains were diesel-hauled and soon to be electric, and that neither of these need a triangle or turntable, I was wondering why the triangle was rebuilt.
  SM247 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Cavill Avenue Station
The one at Shorncliffe is still connected up I think, but almost certainly wouldn't be sparked.  There is also one at Yandina and I believe Landsborough, plus the one at Bethania which is still connected to the now out of service Beaudesert branch.

The Landsborough triangle is probably overgrown and behind locked gates, but the Yandina one will presumably see some use when 1079 or 1089 go up there on 28 Feb for the ARHS tour.
  Stuart41 Station Master

Location: Hervey Bay
Thanks for your help guys Smile

Stuart
  A7EL Station Master

Location: At my desk
There is a triangle being constructed at Jilalan to turn the bar-coupled wagons.  Part of the station upgrade.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The one at Shorncliffe is still connected up I think, but almost certainly wouldn't be sparked.  There is also one at Yandina and I believe Landsborough, plus the one at Bethania which is still connected to the now out of service Beaudesert branch.

The Landsborough triangle is probably overgrown and behind locked gates, but the Yandina one will presumably see some use when 1079 or 1089 go up there on 28 Feb for the ARHS tour.
"SM247"


Shorncliff wasn't wired when I saw it. Apart from coal areas there would be no need for sparking Y's down south. 39's are double ended and its very very rare a eMU needs to have part of it turned.

Regards
Shane
  scubs Chief Commissioner

Location: Geebung, Brisbane
For loading and unloading don't QR Coal Wagons need to travel in a certain direction, hence the notices on the sides "Direction of Travel ->"

This could be another use for triangles
  coachdriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Rocky
39's are double ended
"RTT_Rules"

Not any more.  All overhauled electrics have lost the second cab.  

By the way, I've heard a rumour that the 39's are to be returned to freight in the next few weeks.  Not needed in coal with the drop off in traffic.
  Shadowrunner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Cartmanland
Pardon my stupidness, what's a triangle, and what's it used for?
  bunza Deputy Commissioner
  Shadowrunner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Cartmanland
AH! Thought it was something like that, and I've seen that before, but wasn't sure what it was.

Thanks for explaining that.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
For loading and unloading don't QR Coal Wagons need to travel in a certain direction, hence the notices on the sides "Direction of Travel ->"

This could be another use for triangles
"scubs"


Yes, but why would you need to. Coal wagons are placed in that orinentation once and I cannot think how they could be turned in service and why you would want to knowing they shouldn't.

Locos yes, and you see this at Callo, assuming they need to turn a loco that wasn't leading etc, however seem to be more elephant style than previous.

Regards
Shane
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
39's are double ended
"RTT_Rules"

Not any more.  All overhauled electrics have lost the second cab.  

By the way, I've heard a rumour that the 39's are to be returned to freight in the next few weeks.  Not needed in coal with the drop off in traffic.
"coachdriver"


As far as I understand it the 39's still remaining were not modified in the cab area. Can someone clarify this? as I can only tell as they go past and you cannot see much.

Along with the drop off in coal traffic, the new locos still ariving and PNQ starting up, it will be interesting to see what happens, but alass 39's back in general traffic I think unlikely. They need to be 2 man crewed if they were and there is also a drop off in general traffic. Also other issues in why they were dropped have probably not be resolved. I'm sure the Gladstone and Rocky block workings from Brisbane could easily be hauled by a 39 without the issues of loco changes and this may be a nice little work load for them. But not holding breath. More likely mothballed.

Regards
Shane
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
scubs wrote:
The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
Presumably this was rebuilt for the re-opening in 1982 or for the extension to Wellington point in 1986. I can't imagine it survived the 1960 closure!

Given that trains were diesel-hauled and soon to be electric, and that neither of these need a triangle or turntable, I was wondering why the triangle was rebuilt.


Lota to Thornside was extended in the 80s prior to electrification. Diesel were turned on the triangle. The line was extended to Cleveland and electrified to that terminus. Also the new terminus at Cleveland had no provision for a loco to run around a passenger sets. As far as I know QR still operated loco hauled sets to Thornside up to the 90s during peak times to supplement the sparks to Cleveland. I do not know the exact dates, but this is more or less the timeline and I am sure fellow members will correct my errors.

Cheers.
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
The wye at Thornside in Brisbane, on the Cleveland line, still exists.
"scubs"
I was wondering why the triangle was rebuilt [with the re-opening of the line to Thorneside].
"Zen Dave"
Diesel were turned on the triangle.
"Big J"
Why were diesels turned?  I know that some classes were not mirror-image end-to-end, and presumably the crew had a preferred direction, and maybe some performed better in one direction.  But there were many locations where diesels couldn't be turned:  e.g. Ferny Grove, Strathpine, Zillmere, Pinkenba, Oxley, Darra; and other places where diesels could be turned at some stage, but usually weren't: e.g. Petrie (with a turntable) and Ascot (on a triangle, removed long ago).

Why was Thornside different?  Was it because there the nearest emergency turning facilities were too far away?  Was it because the most-used class was one of the ones that usually was turned?

A follow-up question: Were diesels often turned there, i.e. was the triangle ever used?

NOTE: edited who quoted what.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Maybe the Y's are steam age based on industrial needs.

Regards
Shane
  richard6006 Station Master

It was common practice in the 70s and 80s to run diesels short end leading where possible.  As a child in the 70s I used to love watching the locos turn on the Y at Shorncliffe when we went down there.  However, when there were no turning facilities, most diesels (except the 1200s with their full width bodies, were capable of running long end leading.  

I do not recall seeing a loco on a long distance passenger or goods train running long end leading.  In fact, in the 70s when they mued the Sunlander there switched from running the DELs back to back to elephant style in case the lead loco failed, meaning that the trailing loco could take over the train 'facing forward'.

Most lines had a Y or turn table at the terminus.  Ferny Grove and Lota were cut back from longer branches, and so were really intermediate stations with buffers.

(and here I switch from memory to opinion)

However, I would guess that the vision was not as good if you had a fair chunk of loco in front of you, and, as the railways got further away from the steam era, and people had less memory of a looking through a Bety's boiler, long end leading running became more odious.

I have got no idea why there was a Y at Mitchelton - maybe it was something to do with shunt trains to Enoggera and Newmarket?  But that would not have been a long run tender first for the cement and stock trains.  Or did they have terminating rail motors which needed to rotate?
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
It was common practice in the 70s and 80s to run diesels short end leading where possible.
"richard6006"
That explains the triangle at Thorneside, then.

I used to catch up trains at Lawnton regularly.  I'd often be in time to see the suburban on its way down to Petrie before returning as the up.  There was a turntable at Petrie, but I don't think it was used very often for these suburbans.  So most of my experience was seeing diesels with either end leading.  I didn't realise Petrie was a bit of an exception.  Thanks for explaining.

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