High Speed Points

 
  SP7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Tassie
Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows what high speeds point are?

We are supposed to be getting High Speed points down here in tassie but no one really knows what is the difference with them and our normal points are.

They are going to be made up there in QLD & shipped here.

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  3foot6 Minister for Railways

Location: Unknown
High Speed Points/Turnouts just simply means that you can go faster through them.  For example, there are many high speed turnouts on the Gold Coast Line and the North Coast.  I believe they are 140km/h and 160km/h respectively.
  sub_troppo Beginner

High Speed Points/Turnouts just simply means that you can go faster through them.  For example, there are many high speed turnouts on the Gold Coast Line and the North Coast.  I believe they are 140km/h and 160km/h respectively.
"3foot6"


Speeds I don't think they will be worrying too much about in the Apple Isle!  Wink
  A7EL Station Master

Location: At my desk
Probably has a moving vee in the frog as well as the point blade.  Less wear as there is no gap in the track to go across.
  SP7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Tassie
I understand what they mean,  but how they differ is the question.  They want to increase speeds up to 80 kph,  current speeds over points here are 25kph. They are currently removing points from various sidings and straight railing them until these new points arrive.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
65 to 80kph points (called high speed points) DO NOT have a movable frog they are just much longer than a standard set and are mostly concrete timber types not normal timbers.
All the ones we install here in Sydney have the timbers (bearers) made in Bundaberg but the rails,jewelry,and other fittings are made localy here and at Bathurst rail workshops.
  A7EL Station Master

Location: At my desk
A lot of the 50km/h and all of the 80km/h points in the Goonyella system have moveable vee's.  I agree that the difference between the 50km/h and 80km/h is the length.  Probably a higher axle loading with the coal trains, but it is the same gauge as Tasmania.  The 50km/h points with a stationary vee have a replaceable frog.
  EMBaldwin Chief Commissioner

Location: Amongst the Cane Fields
65 to 80kph points (called high speed points) DO NOT have a movable frog they are just much longer than a standard set and are mostly concrete timber types not normal timbers.
"42101"

Depends on who is installing them I guess.  I've seen 50km/h points with the movable frog - then again, have also seen 40 & 50km/h points without the movable frog.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
Sorry fellas left out the words...down here...infront of DO NOT. EmbarassedEmbarassed been a long brain dead day. EmbarassedLaughing
  Heavy Hauler Chief Train Controller

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows what high speeds point are?

We are supposed to be getting High Speed points down here in tassie but no one really knows what is the difference with them and our normal points are.

They are going to be made up there in QLD & shipped here.
"SP7"


Known in Qld as Swingnose points> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swingnose_crossing
  SP7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Tassie
cheers guys,  all very interesting
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I cannot imagine Tassie bothering with anything more than 25km/hr turn outs. The only turnouts are going into loops and sidings and a train from the NW would be lucky to pass more than 3 trains before Hobart.

Straight trhough would be line speed and except in a few locations greater 60km/hr is pointless. I thought the highest speeds were 70 and thats on the BB line. 80 makes sense as there is plenty of straight'ish track between Burnie and Hobart, probaly 1/3 of the route.

Regards
shane
  inlander Train Controller

Location: Brisbane
The points are rated anywhere from 1in 16 to 1 in 30 and some have moveable switch nose .

The rating dictates the speed for the diverging move- anywhwre from 25 to 80 kmh in QR .
  bunza Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gold Coast
The Gold Coast line had points that allowed 140km/h on the main line and 100km/h diverging to the loop at all stations prior to duplication.

The only places these would remain would be south of Coomera and north of Helensvale at the remaining single track section. The crossovers south of Ormeau are now 80km/h on the diverging track since duplication.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Swingnose crossings are provided

* where there is a high crossing rate V crossing

* where there is high axle load (coal) traffic, even for low speed sidings such as at Singleton

* to reduce noise, such as at Chatswood under the tunnel on the ECRL

High speed turnouts inprove journey times and headways. They are not always possible due to site limitations.

Like for like turnout renewals of old style "straight switch" turnouts with "tangential turnouts" with curves switches generally achieve a small but useful speed improvement, say X25 -> X35 on the Up Suburban at Lidcombe.
  bunza Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gold Coast
Like for like turnout renewals of old style "straight switch" turnouts with "tangential turnouts" with curves switches generally achieve a small but useful speed improvement, say X25 -> X35 on the Up Suburban at Lidcombe.
"awsgc24"

Some of the ones being replaced around SEQ aren't designed for any speed increases unfortunately.
  SP7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Tassie
I cannot imagine Tassie bothering with anything more than 25km/hr turn outs. The only turnouts are going into loops and sidings and a train from the NW would be lucky to pass more than 3 trains before Hobart.

Straight trhough would be line speed and except in a few locations greater 60km/hr is pointless. I thought the highest speeds were 70 and thats on the BB line. 80 makes sense as there is plenty of straight'ish track between Burnie and Hobart, probaly 1/3 of the route.




The last place we could do 70kph was around the Campbell town area & that was years ago.  Lucky if we can get to 60 kph these days anywhere!

The state gov wants faster running trains,  hence it want these high speed points.  You must remember there are points in numerous places, besides major crossing loops & yard there is for instance:

Penguin loop,  Ulverstone dead end,  Don Jct (these have just been pulled out)  Pivot siding, dunorlan, westbury, powranna, Ross to name a few.

So having to reduce to 25kph is restrictive.  Still I really doubt we will see 80 kph along the nw coast.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Swingnose crossings are provided

* where there is a high crossing rate V crossing

* where there is high axle load (coal) traffic, even for low speed sidings such as at Singleton

* to reduce noise, such as at Chatswood under the tunnel on the ECRL

High speed turnouts inprove journey times and headways. They are not always possible due to site limitations.

Like for like turnout renewals of old style "straight switch" turnouts with "tangential turnouts" with curves switches generally achieve a small but useful speed improvement, say X25 -> X35 on the Up Suburban at Lidcombe.
"awsgc24"


There maybe a few applications in Tassie where turnouts with speeds greater than 25 would provide a substaintial benefit for rail, but I cannot imagine many. Noise maybe a bigger issue than any benefit for rail.

Regards
Shane
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Swingnose crossings are provided

* where there is a high crossing rate V crossing

* where there is high axle load (coal) traffic, even for low speed sidings such as at Singleton

* to reduce noise, such as at Chatswood under the tunnel on the ECRL

High speed turnouts inprove journey times and headways. They are not always possible due to site limitations.

Like for like turnout renewals of old style "straight switch" turnouts with "tangential turnouts" with curves switches generally achieve a small but useful speed improvement, say X25 -> X35 on the Up Suburban at Lidcombe.
"awsgc24"


"RTT_Rules"


Other factors may be relevant.
A loop turnout at the bottom of a steep uphill grade would tend to need a speed upgrade, though not a the top of a down hill grade.

BTW, tangential turnouts being "smoother" and "stronger" than old style turnouts (though more costly) may have a longer life, offsetting the extra cost.

BTW2. Two crossovers installed north of Sydney P16/17 and P18/19 in about 1978 are now concrete bearer tangential renewed perhaps 2005 (wasn't looking so don't know when). This will give you an idea how long turnouts last under heavy use.

There maybe a few applications in Tassie where turnouts with speeds greater than 25 would provide a substaintial benefit for rail, but I cannot imagine many. Noise maybe a bigger issue than any benefit for rail.
  pilotdude09 Junior Train Controller

In the Pilbara we have Swing nose and fixed frogs.

The swing nose ones are motorised frogs. So you have the points motor and then the points motor for the frog.

These points when set for the reverse (diverge) allow you to go 65kph over them, they are rated to much higher speeds but don't think you would want to try it with a 30,000 tonne train.

In our yards we have got the fixed frogs which are just the standard frog you see everywhere else, they are limited to 35kph in both the normal and reverse positions.

But the swing nose are much better as they don't wear as much, much smoother to go over and of course allow the speed to be increased over turnouts.

Bit off topic but anyway might interest someone.......
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
In the Pilbara we have Swing nose and fixed frogs.

The swing nose ones are motorised frogs. So you have the points motor and then the points motor for the frog.  

These points when set for the reverse (diverge) allow you to go 65kph over them, they are rated to much higher speeds but don't think you would want to try it with a 30,000 tonne train.

In our yards we have got the fixed frogs which are just the standard frog you see everywhere else, they are limited to 35kph in both the normal and reverse positions.

But the swing nose are much better as they don't wear as much, much smoother to go over and of course allow the speed to be increased over turnouts.

Bit off topic but anyway might interest someone.......
"pilotdude09"


In NSW, a crossover  with two ends would be numbered 51A and 51B.

A crossover with swingnose crossings and extra point machines would be numbered 52A, 52B and 52C, 52D, where B and C are the swingnoses.

How goes it in the Pilbara and elsewhere?
  pilotdude09 Junior Train Controller

I can only comment for Rio Tinto.

We have the same, A and B for the crossovers.

However where there's a swing nose frog in the question the points are A and the frog is B. Then the other set of points for the cross over will have a different number and the frog.

eg. 480 A&B and the other points are 481 A&B.

Depends where it is really........

But pretty much the same though we don't have any C's and D's guess it was easier for them to give the other points a separate number.

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