Election stunt / railway station planned for Epsom

 
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
From the Bendigo Advertiser today, yet another poorly though out election stunt:
http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/general/train-station-for-epsom-planned/1995795.aspx

THE Coalition plan to build a new train station at Epsom, if they are elected at the state election.

Coalition spokesman for transport Terry Mulder, in Epsom this morning, said the station would include a 160 metre platform, 100 sealed car parks and 95 train services.

Mr Mulder said the Epsom Station would be built by 2013.

Boom gates will also be installed at the Howard Street rail crossing, matching Labor's announcement earlier this week.

Mr Mulder said the Coalition would also employ staff for a renovated Eaglehawk station, and provide more train services and 100 sealed car parks.

He said both Epsom and Eaglehawk upgraded facilities would cost $6 million, plus $2 million for more train services and $250,000 for boom gates.

Comment from Labor is being sought.


Some issues - Epsom is on the line to Echuca:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ll=-36.724714,144.314861&spn=0.110072,0.264187&z=
13

Without extra services it sounds like a bloody useless station to me, only getting one train a day:
http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/newtimetables/echuca.pdf

At least Eaglehawk (on the line towards Swan Hill) is partly useful because some of the Bendigo trains are extended there. The more useful thing to do would to extend all trains to Eaglehawk, by building a new station on the 'other' leg it makes that possibility even WORSE by diluting extended Bendigo trains between two termini.

An additional issue with splitting trains between two stations is the car parking issue: being a country station the main patronage is commuters to Melbourne, who drive to the station from home. If you drive to the station in the morning, you need to come home to the same station in the  afternoon so you can drive home. This issue killed patronage to Marshall in the early days, before a larger number of trains were extend from South Geelong to serve it.

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  62440 Chief Commissioner

Maryborough only has one train a day, so there is a precedent.
  ppiglet Chief Train Controller

Maybe they're intending to introduce some country shuttle services, for example from Epsom to Castlemaine and back - at least that's what I heard a while ago.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Maybe they're intending to introduce some country shuttle services, for example from Epsom to Castlemaine and back - at least that's what I heard a while ago.
"ppiglet"

But it would be exceptionally hard to schedule such a train since the Labour Party singled the line which had been double track for over 140 years.

Sadly, it would be very expensive to reduplicate even part of the track, as the new single line was mostly laid between the former double tracks, meaning that the new line would need to be moved a couple of metres to the side if a second track was to be laid. Effectively short term thinking of just getting the new track down inadvertently sabotaged any future duplication. Sad

Not that I'm defending the Libs stunt of a station at Epsom, and I agree that if services are to be extended beyond Bendigo, it would be best if as many as possible went to Eaglehawk.
  412M Assistant Commissioner

Possibly do a similar idea to the Moree/Armidale exploder services in NSW. Have a long V/locity or sprinter train to Echuca. At Echuca, front half goes to Eaglehawk, back half goes to Epsom?

It would be very hard (if not impossible) to get any new trains between Bendigo and Castlemaine during the day on weekdays, due to the lack of available paths as a result of it being singled and not enough crossing loops. In fact, when it was singled, the government also had to get the Echuca-Toolamba up to standards, so that the freights could continue operating from Denington (later ceased for other reasons).

New/extended loops on the line between Bendigo and Kyneton are already being considered, and have been for some time. These would allow for extra services to operate and also provide more flexibility if something goes wrong.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Possibly do a similar idea to the Moree/Armidale exploder services in NSW. Have a long V/locity or sprinter train to Echuca. At Echuca, front half goes to Eaglehawk, back half goes to Epsom?
"412M"

I'm sure the travellers would love having to get out of the train at Bendigo while they coupled the trains, after having travelled just one station.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
No reason why they can't stable at Bendigo, shuttle out to Epsom and return. They do that with the 6.13 from Eaglehawk.

Personally I cant see it happening, but it would be nice - speaking as a local.

Rick
  Speed Minister for Railways

I think that the suggestion is that:
  • 4 cars travel from Melbourne to Echuca
  • the front 2 cars proceed to one place
  • the rear 2 cars proceed to the other

As long as people boarding the train know that this will happen, they can board the correct half. There's no need for them to change. Those who are travelling to stations up from Echuca can board any of the four cars.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
I think that the suggestion is that:
  • 4 cars travel from Melbourne to Echuca
  • the front 2 cars proceed to one place
  • the rear 2 cars proceed to the other

As long as people boarding the train know that this will happen, they can board the correct half. There's no need for them to change. Those who are travelling to stations up from Echuca can board any of the four cars.
"Speed"

just like the good ol days so to speak. Nothing really new about such things.

Be interesting though
  412M Assistant Commissioner

I'm sure the travellers would love having to get out of the train at Bendigo while they coupled the trains, after having travelled just one station.

(Duttonbay, don't take this a personal attack but...)

The second train to arrive for the coupling up would have to enter the platform on a low speed signal, so an impact at only 15km/h is the maximum that would happen. I find it unlikely that most people would get much more than a small bump when the train coupled up, but you get worse bumps from poorly maintained track. Yes, hot food/drink may go flying, but you would not sell any until the trains are coupled up.

When uncoupling, you would just have someone uncouple the cars when the first train is ready to leave, then that train leaving would physically separate the two. This would most likely be the driver of the second train.

Both of these ideas occur at PBR; people are frequently on the carriages when the loco attaches at Belgrave/Lakeside/Gembrook. Likewise, people stay on board the train as it is split in half (usually at 11:00 on some weekends at Menzies Creek). These practices set a precedent for it to happen elsewhere in Victoria.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Maybe they're intending to introduce some country shuttle services, for example from Epsom to Castlemaine and back - at least that's what I heard a while ago.
"ppiglet"


That is the most sensible idea I have heard in a while.

--Bill
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales

Sadly, it would be very expensive to reduplicate even part of the track, as the new single line was mostly laid between the former double tracks, meaning that the new line would need to be moved a couple of metres to the side if a second track was to be laid. Effectively short term thinking of just getting the new track down inadvertently sabotaged any future duplication. Sad
"Bogong"


In the 1890's they changed the entire Great Western Railway from BG+ to SG in a weekend.  This was over 280kms.

--Bill
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
True Freightgate. But all the GWR did was shift one rail, a relatively simple job.

But to reinstate the double track between Kyneton and Bendigo, you would have to completely dig up the new single line and move it 2 metres to the side. This would require new ballasting, new tamping, etc. It would be a huge job just to move the single line to the side to allow the double line to be rebuilt beside it on the 150 year old formation.

I'm not claiming that the Labour Party deliberately sabotaged any chance of reinstating double track, (or anything silly like that). But their desire to get it done as quickly as possible, without thinking through the consequences of laying the new line between the two old lines, is something that will cause a lot of inconvenience and expense in the future. Sad
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Yes, hot food/drink may go flying, but you would not sell any until the trains are coupled up.
"412M"


Wot, on a Vlocity?
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
From the Bendigo Advertiser today, yet another poorly though out election stunt:

Some issues - Epsom is on the line to Echuca:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ll=-36.724714,144.314861&spn=0.110072,0.264187&z=
13

Without extra services it sounds like a bloody useless station to me, only getting one train a day:
http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/newtimetables/echuca.pdf
"wongm"


Good pickup, Geewong.

Very sharp. One train a day. What a waste of money.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I'm sure the travellers would love having to get out of the train at Bendigo while they coupled the trains, after having travelled just one station.

(Duttonbay, don't take this a personal attack but...)

The second train to arrive for the coupling up would have to enter the platform on a low speed signal, so an impact at only 15km/h is the maximum that would happen. I find it unlikely that most people would get much more than a small bump when the train coupled up, but you get worse bumps from poorly maintained track. Yes, hot food/drink may go flying, but you would not sell any until the trains are coupled up.
"412M"


As I understand it, V/Line or whatever they are called these days, but definitely not Victorian Railways, will not allow passengers on board trains which are being coupled up in a platform.

That was certainly the case when we travelled home from Echuca a year or two ago when we all disembarked, stood around on the platform for five minutes while they did their work, and then all got back on again.

In other, more enlightened railways these things happen all of the time. But no longer in Victoria.
  pberrett Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne, West Island
Maybe what is proposed is that some or all Bendigo services will continue on to Epsom and then come back to Melbourne from there.

Quite a sensible idea actually.

I would have thought, though, that in terms of overall annual passenger numbers there was more merit in creating a Bendigo Showgrounds station. It would only get used for a couple of days a year but would get lots of patronage on those days.

cheers Peter
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Maybe what is proposed is that some or all Bendigo services will continue on to Epsom and then come back to Melbourne from there.
"pberrett"


Why not alternate existing Bendigo services to terminate at either Eaglehawk or Epsom.  It would be kind of like how existing sparks on the Ringwood Line run to either Belgrave or Lilydale or how sparks through Dandenong run to either Pakenham or Cranbourne.

What would be wrong with that?  Both stations would still get a reasonable service without requiring any extra infrastructure south of Bendigo.

Ross
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Why not alternate existing Bendigo services to terminate at either Eaglehawk or Epsom. What would be wrong with that?  Both stations would still get a reasonable service without requiring any extra infrastructure south of Bendigo.
"Rossco T"

It is BAD BAD BAD as I detailed in my initial post.

A map for everyone:



Bendigo to Epsom is about 7 km by road:
- linky

Bendigo to Eaglehawk is about the same:
- linky

As is Epsom to Eaglehawk:
- linky

Imagine you drove to Eaglehawk station to catch a train into Melbourne for a day out. You have lunch, do some shopping, then decide to come home. Lets check the timetable to see what train we can catch:



Lets catch the 1515 you say. That goes to Bendigo. OH WAIT! It goes to Epsom, and our car is at Eaglehawk. I've got to wait an hour until the 1615. w00t. Evil or Very Mad
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
I would have thought, though, that in terms of overall annual passenger numbers there was more merit in creating a Bendigo Showgrounds station. It would only get used for a couple of days a year but would get lots of patronage on those days.
"pberrett"

Who actually goes to the show in country towns? In Geelong the visitors fell into a few groups:
- Families with children on a day out
- Underaged kids wanting to go on the rides / get drunk
- Horse people looking at the equestrian events
- Country people involved in the various competitions and events

How would they get between their home and the train station? I assume a car. Why can't they just drive the reset of the way? Even a cheap and nasty platform (which the DoT won't let you get away with these days) is too much $$$ to spend on a once a year thing.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Lets catch the 1515 you say. That goes to Bendigo. OH WAIT! It goes to Epsom, and our car is at Eaglehawk. I've got to wait an hour until the 1615. w00t. Evil or Very Mad
"wongm"


There are local buses that can get you out of trouble, If the train goes In the other direction then what you want.

QR "Citytrain" call them rail buses.

Train arrives from Melbourne at Bendigo Station and heads for Epsom, a connecting bus service could meet passengers at Bendigo Station and forrard them to Eaglehawk.
And the other way around (the train goes to Eaglehawk and connecting bus to Epsom.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Methinks the idea is the result of the new shopping centre recently opened in Epsom less than a block away. That and the huge growth in the local population over the last 10 years in both Epsom and Huntly..

I'd like to see this idea come to fruition providing some serious thought is given to how trains will service it. Stunt maybe, lets see if Labor copies the commitment.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Better off spending the money on improved town bus services.
  712M Chief Commissioner

From the Bendigo Advertiser today, yet another poorly though out election stunt:

Some issues - Epsom is on the line to Echuca:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ll=-36.724714,144.314861&spn=0.110072,0.264187&z=
13

Without extra services it sounds like a bloody useless station to me, only getting one train a day:
http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/newtimetables/echuca.pdf
"wongm"


Good pickup, Geewong.

Very sharp. One train a day. What a waste of money.
"574M"


The news article indicated that the station would receive 95 services, I assume this is the amount of services per week as Bendigo doesn't receive this many services every day.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

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