Powerline 48 class has arrived

 
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Call me picky, but I think I'll be waiting for the Trainrama 48 class models to arrive before shelling out my hard-earned dosh.

The pics on their Face-ache site indicate that:

They haven't fixed the white "blobs" that are supposed to pass as crew members
They didn't get the wheels blackened
The air horns are a bit wonky on the Series 4 model in the pic....also they are not "crisp" castings.
The Flettner vent seems to be sitting too high.
The asking price is around $325- (RRP), but they say that the pricing is up to the retailer to decide.


I look forward to reading what other modellers think in due course.

Sorry if I come across as being overly negative, but when you compare the quality of the other importers' offerings (and prices), there isn't any comparison from what I can see in the pics.

Roachie

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  a6et Minister for Railways

Call me picky, but I think I'll be waiting for the Trainrama 48 class models to arrive before shelling out my hard-earned dosh.

The pics on their Face-ache site indicate that:

They haven't fixed the white "blobs" that are supposed to pass as crew members
They didn't get the wheels blackened
The air horns are a bit wonky on the Series 4 model in the pic....also they are not "crisp" castings.
The Flettner vent seems to be sitting too high.
The asking price is around $325- (RRP), but they say that the pricing is up to the retailer to decide.


I look forward to reading what other modellers think in due course.

Sorry if I come across as being overly negative, but when you compare the quality of the other importers' offerings (and prices), there isn't any comparison from what I can see in the pics.

Roachie

"Roachie"


Having also only seen some photo's of them in a showcase, there are several things that do not look right from my perspective.

Whilst its hard to work out the real colour of them owing to photo colour problems & monitors etc, from what I see of the colours, they are certainly not correct for across the board painting of them for the whole of the 4 series. The rendition of the Tuscan or whatever is one that was really only on some of the early mk 1's & the remainder were more of the deep Indian Red/brown, likewise the yellow should be more of a creamy colour (colour name has escaped me for the moment).  I am also wondering where they got their paint designs from, especially with the way the steps & areas are painted.

I do not like the fan room grille area as its a retro step backwards when compared to brass etches that is more the norm these days. The molded in hand brake chain has it in the fully applied position instead of hanging loose for it being off.

For those who are modelling specific era's, these models represent more the 70's onwards than earlier periods, that 4803 represents the modern day & not in service is based on the reflectors along the running board sides, yet has buffer diaphrams, when in regular service they had flat topped diaphrams, none had Flentner vents up to & in the 60's.

The exhaust also is a shocker, surelly some sort of better attention to it being crisper in casting could have happened. As per usual for PL  the hand rails, along the hoods look to thick also.

Certainly if I was in the market for a 48cl I would be waiting for the TOR version to arrive, likewise I would be taking the original Trax/PL 48cl along to compare it to the new U beaut version.
  MontyPython Station Master

Location: None of your business


Still looks cr*p to me. Typical Powerline toy rubbish.

And what's this about a fan motor being noisy? Surely they haven't put a motor in the radiator fan. What a w*nk!! Only visible for those who like viewing their models from a 'helicopter'.

The TOR version will be 300% better than this one and cheaper!!! They can't even give a RRP, and at $325, why would anyone buy a PL one over the TOR one at $265?



  a6et Minister for Railways


Still looks cr*p to me. Typical Powerline toy rubbish.

And what's this about a fan motor being noisy? Surely they haven't put a motor in the radiator fan. What a w*nk!! Only visible for those who like viewing their models from a 'helicopter'.

The TOR version will be 300% better than this one and cheaper!!! They can't even give a RRP, and at $325, why would anyone buy a PL one over the TOR one at $265?


"MontyPython"


If you order a TOR version even by putting a deposit on it, you get it for $265.00 however, once they are here then the following is shown on the new webb site & new ownership headline  "it should be noted that the price of these models will rise once they have been landed in Australia. "
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner


Still looks cr*p to me. Typical Powerline toy rubbish.

And what's this about a fan motor being noisy? Surely they haven't put a motor in the radiator fan. What a w*nk!! Only visible for those who like viewing their models from a 'helicopter'.

The TOR version will be 300% better than this one and cheaper!!! They can't even give a RRP, and at $325, why would anyone buy a PL one over the TOR one at $265?


"MontyPython"


For the TOR version to be 300% better I would expect to see fine scale stainless steel wheels, with the wheel sides suitably coloured, genuine scale head Kadee whisker couplers factory fitted, both inside and outside compensating beams on the bogie side frames correctly modelled, an option for factory fitted DCC using a quality decoder with BEMF that works plus all the other deviations from prototype mentioned in previous posts about the Powerline model absent.

I will wait and see both 48's before deciding which model is worth buying.

Terry Flynn

AMRA standards http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm

http://angelfire.com/clone/rail/index.html

H0 wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

H0 scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet



  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
And what's this about a fan motor being noisy? Surely they haven't put a motor in the radiator fan. What a w*nk!! Only visible for those who like viewing their models from a 'helicopter'.
"MontyPython"


Yes, there is a motor to operate the radiator fan. Could actually come in handy for cooling a DCC decoder Smile

The TOR version will be 300% better than this one and cheaper!!! They can't even give a RRP, and at $325, why would anyone buy a PL one over the TOR one at $265?


Powerline had discounts available for pre-orders on par with the competition's, unless there's a miracle you can expect the TrainO version to also have a higher 'after delivery' price. Come to think of it, why would anyone buy a TrainO one for $265 when they could have had it for $220?
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Michael is correct.  I just checked my records and I paid $220 for the Power Line 48.

Has anyone received one and had it running, or is all this critique on the strength of photos?

I have both Traino And PL 48s on order, so we will see when I can put them side by side and run each of them.  As they say in the classics fair suck of the sausage.

Best regards,
John
  a6et Minister for Railways

And what's this about a fan motor being noisy? Surely they haven't put a motor in the radiator fan. What a w*nk!! Only visible for those who like viewing their models from a 'helicopter'.
"MontyPython"


Yes, there is a motor to operate the radiator fan. Could actually come in handy for cooling a DCC decoder Smile

The TOR version will be 300% better than this one and cheaper!!! They can't even give a RRP, and at $325, why would anyone buy a PL one over the TOR one at $265?


Powerline had discounts available for pre-orders on par with the competition's, unless there's a miracle you can expect the TrainO version to also have a higher 'after delivery' price. Come to think of it, why would anyone buy a TrainO one for $265 when they could have had it for $220?
"Poath Junction"


Is the motor working all the time, that is the fan motor of course?

The original EB price was for a limited time owing to the model was expected to be available in a short time frame, & was then put up to $265.00 & the price held at that with any order with a deposit put down on it.   I also heard that the PL model had the same EB price on it to compete with the TOR version, so the question about the TOR price of Why, would surelly apply just as much to the PL version with its arrival price, why would you pay the asking price for it when you could have gotten it for a $100.00 cheaper?
  Trainsaregood Locomotive Fireman


Mine arrived today. Well packed. Can't run it as I am in the throws of moving house and all my train stuff is packed in boxes.

From observation, my wheels aren't blackened and the horns are wonky on the roof.

There are 'real' plastic men in the cab.

I can see a 'real' fan in the ventilation duct on the roof but don't know yet if it runs.

Otherwise for the $220.00 I paid, I am happy.

Very Happy
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne

Looking at the photos I have to wonder: I thought this was supposed to be a completely re-tooled model? Granted I'm not looking at the model in my own hands, but I'm hard pressed to find any noticeable difference between the new one and those produced with the original 30 year old die. 
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Looking at the photos I have to wonder: I thought this was supposed to be a completely re-tooled model? Granted I'm not looking at the model in my own hands, but I'm hard pressed to find any noticeable difference between the new one and those produced with the original 30 year old die. 
"michaelgreenhill"


I have an old one in my hand and its difficult to see the differences. Granted the old Trax, and early Powerline versions had a heavy coat of paint on them hiding what detail was there Sad
Going to be interesting to see the two side by side in pictures. However I seriously doubt that the old dies were used this time
Cheers
Rod
  ALCO4401 Train Controller

Location: On the Branch waiting for a train order, west of Tarana
Well,
I will just wait another three weeks for the boys from Trainworld to arrive here in Perth for a closer look. I will make comments then when I see them in the flesh.

Cheers
Paul (Alco4401)
  Bigwato Chief Commissioner

Location: Craigieburn Victoria
Im slightly..........Underwhelmed at this model  Confused
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Anything new like this is open to discussion on what is wrong with it, it is how some of us make up our minds which models to buy and If I have to resort to fixing a model that should have been pretty well right in the first place for your money, then I will not buy it. We cannot all be wrong on some things. But taking a swipe at people is not the way to go though, everyone is entitled to have an opinion of something, we all do it.

I too do not like the model I have not seen one in the flesh yet just the photos, but something to me does not seem right on the model as others have pointed out some of the things I will not list them again but the wheels to me could do with blackening or something it just leaps out of photos with shiny wheel sides like that.
  whiteknight Locomotive Fireman

Location: Kings Park.N.S.W. 2148.
Call me picky, but I think I'll be waiting for the Trainrama 48 class models to arrive before shelling out my hard-earned dosh.

The pics on their Face-ache site indicate that:

They haven't fixed the white "blobs" that are supposed to pass as crew members
They didn't get the wheels blackened
The air horns are a bit wonky on the Series 4 model in the pic....also they are not "crisp" castings.
The Flettner vent seems to be sitting too high.
The asking price is around $325- (RRP), but they say that the pricing is up to the retailer to decide.


I look forward to reading what other modellers think in due course.

Sorry if I come across as being overly negative, but when you compare the quality of the other importers' offerings (and prices), there isn't any comparison from what I can see in the pics.

Roachie

"Roachie"


When it comes to Model Railways,it is pretty hard to go past a Trainorama Model.They tend to get their models like Looka likes-real stuff.Its these other makers that are trying to better the others, but also want a share of your money as well.Best way is to hold on to your money ,until Trainorama brings out a more refined model of the loco that you really want.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Gee, I really feel as though I've stirred up a hornets nest by starting this thread....but I guess if I didn't start it, somebody else would've.

I go back to my original post.....and the only 2 things that slap me in the face like a wet fish are those damned wheels and the crew members being white (or green or whatever). 

This latter point probably isn't such an issue, as I have a bevy of TOR 44 class that all have 4 crew members (all fully dressed and with proper faces). As we all know, you'd NEVER normally see a crew sitting in both cabs of a diesel loco and also not in the cabs of locos "in the shafts". 

So, IF TOR weren't bringing out their 48 later this year, I would quite happily buy a Powerline model and paint the wheels blackish (groaning all the while) and pluck the figures out of the cab, to be either replaced by figures I could commandeer from a larger ALCO brother, or otherwise just leave the seats vacant.

I could certainly live with the flettner vent, the tort brake chain and the radiator grilles etc, but NOT the shiny wheels and the existing crew.

A bit of weathering and they'd be okay I guess.

Of course, all that pre-supposes that these little fellas will run okay!! I have read Marcus Ammann's article about getting DCC sound into one.....I'm not sure you'd class it as a "plug'n'play".

Roachie
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
I have removed the garbage posted earlier, and the replies pertaining to that particular post.
Please keep it civil, or I will lock the thread.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

From posts on the Powerline Facebook page it seems that indeed the two major concerns of the OP are correct - the all over green crew and the bright silver wheels. I myself had observed the silver wheels on the 48's running around at the Brisbane show but I had hoped - for Powerline's sake - that these were just pre-production models. I can't find it now but I swear this issue was raised with Powerline some time ago and we were assurred at the time that the production models would have blackened wheels.

For someone who has defended Powerline in the recent past this is a little dissapointing. After their recent rollingstock releases - the VHGYs in particular - I had hoped they had "turned the corner". By today's standards, blackened wheels in particular are a must.

For me personally its a little academic as I probably will not be getting any further 48s from either Powerline or Traino (or this that Bob?). I'm happy with my existing 7 old Powerline 48s which I remotored using Hollywood mechanisms some years ago (although to be fair even the Hollywood mechanisms only have bright silver wheels!!!).

But overall I feel its still a dissapointment. Powerline had the opportunity here to get a jump on the competition for once - and I think they may have mufffed it.

Tony
  a6et Minister for Railways

I have removed the garbage posted earlier, and the replies pertaining to that particular post.
Please keep it civil, or I will lock the thread.
"Barrington Womble"


While it is agreed that the origianl thread was garbage & that is puting it mildly, & it does say something about the type of people who hide on other more secluded groups, which does not permit any form of critiqueing of products from a certain manufacturer but has no problems with the same against others, & very much a reason why I & many others pulled out of that group years ago, surelly the posts & accusations made against people here on RP in the manner that they were, are entitled to be allowed to defend themselves. 

Also to consider is the fact that the other group poster has no issue either in attacking RP as well, & on that score surelly RP has a right to allow fair comment in this regard, especially as there is a need to retain the overall integrity of the group.

While it is also true that Ian Comport requested that the original poster of the comments to remove them, the end result has been that its been ignored & remains intact.  In fact, Ian Comport has gone onto the site & given quite a reply to the critics, & some challenges as a result, which includes the comment that he has read all of what has been said here & repudiates it on the other group, while in the early stages repudiates all the concepts, dealings ownerships associations & whatever with that group.

I also sent an email to him outlining my case for my comments, no reply but, he mentions me in this latest reply, without any attempt to reply directly to me in its regard, so in the light of that, I would say, that by pulling out this part of the conversion, I would suggest that PL seems to be a company that thinks its untouchable & beyond any criticism, whether valid or not.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Okay.

I have removed the inflammetry post, as it doesn't do either party any good. I'm okay with people giving constructive critism on products, as it should help the importer understand shifts in consumer expectations, and what is the accepted standard in this day and age. Basically the post which everyone had an issue with got the reaction that was intended. Yes, people are entitled to defend their point of view in a constructive manner, which is what happened. It would have been better to ignore the post though, and not give the person the attention they were after.

The problem with removing such a post is that you have to removed the replies with it, as the thread becomes discombobulated if you don't. It also helps to stop rumours or people coming in simply to watch people get shirty.


I hope you understand why this had to happen, and if you do have any further questions, please don't hesitate to PM me.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
While I will not point a finger at any one person or company one thing really gets my lather up is that when something is drastically wrong with a model and you put forth your thoughts on the subject like Roachie did you get stabbed in the back and called negative. I would rather have Roachie tell me what he thinks is wrong with a model than to go out and fork out to buy one and then be totally disappointed with the model. I value what other modellers have to say about models warts and all, then I can make up my own mind whether it is worth it to get a model and try and fix the warts.

Just because a model has a few things wrong with it, does not mean the model is smeg or something it just means that the modellers today expect better than that, so the importer/ distributors etc can get a view of what could have been done better. Contrary to what gets told on these forums some of these importer/ distributors do read what gets said about their models and possibly also about their competitors models as well. It is called learning and no one ever really stops learning.

If a model is a total load of smeg (Highly unlikely today) then what is wrong with pointing it out, it is called honesty and after all the truth hurts sometimes. So it means the manufacturer has to lift their game or go out of business. Reviews in magazine's I don't really like as what one person calls a load of smeg another might gush about it also most try not to upset their advertising clients as well. But when more than 1 person on a site like this or others says that it does not look right or this or that appears to be wrong you get an honest criticism of it.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
(although to be fair even the Hollywood mechanisms only have bright silver wheels!!!).
"brissim"


Blackened wheels are important I totally agree, but seriously, you didn't think to paint the wheels of a mechanism you separately installed, that for extra wheel painting ease arrived sans sides frames? That's pretty lazy and not a valid criticism of the manufacturer of the mech...
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Just so everyone knows, I don't have a problem with the threads content, but I did have a problem with the "Empty vessels" post which has been removed.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

(although to be fair even the Hollywood mechanisms only have bright silver wheels!!!).
"brissim"


Blackened wheels are important I totally agree, but seriously, you didn't think to paint the wheels of a mechanism you separately installed, that for extra wheel painting ease arrived sans sides frames? That's pretty lazy and not a valid criticism of the manufacturer of the mech...
"Aaron"

As it happens I have blackened the wheels on two of the mechanisms. I'll get round to the others when time permits. I wasn't having a go at the manufacturer. What this is an illustration the point that several people have made in this thread that what may have been acceptable 5-10 years ago, is not acceptable in 2012.

Tony
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
(although to be fair even the Hollywood mechanisms only have bright silver wheels!!!).
"brissim"


Blackened wheels are important I totally agree, but seriously, you didn't think to paint the wheels of a mechanism you separately installed, that for extra wheel painting ease arrived sans sides frames? That's pretty lazy and not a valid criticism of the manufacturer of the mech...
"Aaron"

As it happens I have blackened the wheels on two of the mechanisms. I'll get round to the others when time permits. I wasn't having a go at the manufacturer. What this is an illustration the point that several people have made in this thread that what may have been acceptable 5-10 years ago, is not acceptable in 2012.

Tony
"brissim"


Tony,

For what its worth, I (for one) didn't read your earlier comments as "having a go" at Hollywood Foundry mechanisms. If I'm not mistaken, HF supplies its complete chassis in a raw/unpainted state, which is to be expected for that type of cottage industry (in my opinion). Accordingly, somebody who is buying such a mechanism would do so with the understanding, right from the start, that what they receive would need to be painted.

However, the same cannot be said for an otherwise beautifully painted RTR model. The wheels on such a model, presented as being ready to plonk on the track, SHOULD be blackened in this day and age.

Roachie


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