Goodwood Junction Underpass

 
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner




I expect that will be deferred indefinitely though, since it's clearly not essential at this time and money is a major issue at this time. The DPTI's own submission to Parliament for the grade separation project included a non-specific mention of an upgrade to Keswick that was to be deferred until later, but I would not be surprised if it dies completely, considering the tight space available and the expensive need to build it to full DDA standards.

Done right, the crossovers north of Leader St should be able to work for continued use of something similar to the current Showgrounds Central routine (i.e. all regular trains running through platforms 3-4 at Keswick, Show shuttles through 1-2) as well as being exactly the same layout needed if the "overtaking" routine with peak stopping/express trains continued. I'm not in favour of having trains overtake each other on that section*, not when an all-stops train only loses 5-6 minutes over an express to Woodlands Park.

Even with the current Keswick station though, I think it would be better to serve the Show by dumping the Showgrounds Central platform and running a special event timetable using the Belair line - two trains per hour through to Belair with strengthened consists and two shuttles stopping at Keswick before terminating at Goodwood. No gate to the Showgrounds is too far away from public transport then, not when you add together Goodwood station (south-western corner), Keswick station (north-western corner), the purpose-built bus bays in front of the Goyder Pavilion and the normal bus stops on Leader Street and Goodwood Road.

* having a Seaford stopping train wait at Brighton platform 2/3 for an express to overtake could work well though!

"justapassenger"


Do you or any other know what the planned arrangement for crosssovers north of Goodwood looks like

There has been no problem with overtaking trains in Adelaide, it is done world wide. The few minutes gained will be important for the new Seaford time tables which are supposed to have increased frequency. Whethe it is effective when only two stops are involved is a question.

I agree regarding overtaking at Brighton. If you do a train graph of the present NC timetable you will see how much the expresses jamb up the number of trains which can run. Having the express stop at Brighton and also overtake a stopper allows a higher frequency.

If the Seaford line can access both South Sub and Main north of Goodwood then Showgrounds trains could still use a temporary platform; the trailing cross over that was on the sub would need to be put on the main for turnback.

I never knew if the train to the showgrounds got much use.

Regards
Ian

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  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures





Why swap the lines over??

from what I saw in the paper the noarlunga line went under the Artc tracks only and the hills line was unchanged

"6020 Class"


That is a good question particularly as an early "artists impression" showed the lines in the same place only at different depths.

I think the new arrangement gives a better clearance under the SG line and keeps the excavation out from between tracks. Note how the NC line crosses under the SG line more obliquely. A more recent factor might be that the Seaford/NC lines with Tonsley are the only ones to be electrified. Keeps the electrification to the south platforms at Adelaide although the stancheons appear to be up for the entire yard throat.

The change does create a difficulty with the temporary showground platfrom. The other question is will the Seaford/NC line will have access to both the South Main and South Suburban after Goodwood. some have argued this is not important but often the Tonsley stopping service left ARS before the NC express services. The old South main became single after Keswick which allowed a turnback for the showgrounds platform; I think that just happened and was not planned.

Regards
Ian

"steam4ian"

The reason for the SS line being routed under both SM and DIRN is that this formation gives better "turn under" of the SS line and allows the excavation to be deep enough without being too steep. Many models were tried and this was the winner.

  justapassenger Minister for Railways


Do you or any other know what the planned arrangement for crosssovers north of Goodwood looks like


There has been no problem with overtaking trains in Adelaide, it is done world wide. The few minutes gained will be important for the new Seaford time tables which are supposed to have increased frequency. Whethe it is effective when only two stops are involved is a question.

...

I never knew if the train to the showgrounds got much use.
"steam4ian"



No, I don't know the plans for the crossovers north of Leader St. My best guess is that it will roughly resemble a double-lead junction such as that at Grange (but in reverse, the line splitting as it approaches the city) with an added spur and crossover for the Belair line added onto the diverging side of the junction.

I'm not against overtaking trains, just against doing it on that section when it only gains about two minutes out of about six in total before the spur to Tonsley. So long as you can have a gap of at least 10 minutes between two fast services, the slow Tonsley fits in that gap and you have three of your eight hourly services in the space of 15 minutes.

The Show shuttle has been reasonably popular, definitely enough that they kept bringing it back every year, although it's slightly less so now that there is the new bus stopping area outside the Goyder Pavilion off Goodwood Road which serves people getting to the city by bus a bit better than the train.


The reason for the SS line being routed under both SM and DIRN is that this formation gives better "turn under" of the SS line and allows the excavation to be deep enough without being too steep. Many models were tried and this was the winner.
"nm39"



It also makes for a much better configuration of the level crossing, something that Bicycle SA raised serious concerns about as soon as that first artist's impression was released, the one with the bridge between the two level tracks crossing the road (and the TRAXX loco on the freight line). That could have had the potential to be a major stumbling block if that design was still chosen, given that increased cycling participation is being relied upon to justify the Goodwood project and otherwise unrelated cycling facilities were included to sweeten the deal on that front.

  normangerman Junior Train Controller


[quote:20dd196b99]RAIL REVITALISATION

The next stage of rail revitalisation combines a number of projects to limit the duration and inconvenience caused to customers.   The location of and scale of these works mean the impacts will affect all of Adelaide’s metropolitan lines, requiring temporary closures at different locations across the network.

The following projects are planned for completion in 2013:

[•••]

construction of a new accessible station at Wayville, with improved connectivity with the surrounding area and showgrounds [/quote]

http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/RR

  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide




Construction of a new accessible station at Wayville, with improved connectivity with the surrounding area and showgrounds
"normangerman"



http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/RR



I would have thought Goodwood does that pretty well already ...

  justapassenger Minister for Railways


Goodwood isn't accessible though, not with those stupidly steep ramps that may as well be stairs. So long as the only way in/out is through that underpass, Goodwood is not an accessible station. It's a fairly reasonable distance from the nearest entry gates (410m) with a non-signalled crossing over a busy road in the way, so it's a good option for some, but not anywhere near all.

From the Rose Tce gate (or the back gate near the demountable platform's location) to Keswick station is a bit longer (485m) but still shorter overall for the northern half of the Showgrounds complex. Accessibility is even worse for this, while there's no road to cross there is the need to walk along a narrow footpath next to a major intersection and use numerous sets of below-standard stairs and a claustrophobic walkway under Anzac Highway.

The only genuinely accessible public transport options for the Showgrounds are the demountable platform they use for Showground Central trains and the bus bay out the front, both of which are well less than a minute's walk from the nearest entry gates.

In the light of this, I would support a replacement for Keswick just south of Anzac Highway adjacent to Rose Terrace, with lifts and stairs from a Seaford-style bridge over the top at street level, with demountable ticket barriers used to regulate crowding during major events. I think it would probably require the Belair line to remain single track until some point north of Anzac Highway with an island platform serving Belair and the up Seaford line, since there's currently not really space to put in platforms with the tracks converging after they come out from under Anzac Highway.

Likelihood of seeing it happen any time soon? About the same as coast to coast light rail I think!

  ANDL36Y Train Controller




Do you or any other know what the planned arrangement for crosssovers north of Goodwood looks like


There has been no problem with overtaking trains in Adelaide, it is done world wide. The few minutes gained will be important for the new Seaford time tables which are supposed to have increased frequency. Whethe it is effective when only two stops are involved is a question.

...

I never knew if the train to the showgrounds got much use.
"steam4ian"



No, I don't know the plans for the crossovers north of Leader St. My best guess is that it will roughly resemble a double-lead junction such as that at Grange (but in reverse, the line splitting as it approaches the city) with an added spur and crossover for the Belair line added onto the diverging side of the junction.

I'm not against overtaking trains, just against doing it on that section when it only gains about two minutes out of about six in total before the spur to Tonsley. So long as you can have a gap of at least 10 minutes between two fast services, the slow Tonsley fits in that gap and you have three of your eight hourly services in the space of 15 minutes.

The Show shuttle has been reasonably popular, definitely enough that they kept bringing it back every year, although it's slightly less so now that there is the new bus stopping area outside the Goyder Pavilion off Goodwood Road which serves people getting to the city by bus a bit better than the train.


The reason for the SS line being routed under both SM and DIRN is that this formation gives better "turn under" of the SS line and allows the excavation to be deep enough without being too steep. Many models were tried and this was the winner.
"nm39"




It also makes for a much better configuration of the level crossing, something that Bicycle SA raised serious concerns about as soon as that first artist's impression was released, the one with the bridge between the two level tracks crossing the road (and the TRAXX loco on the freight line). That could have had the potential to be a major stumbling block if that design was still chosen, given that increased cycling participation is being relied upon to justify the Goodwood project and otherwise unrelated cycling facilities were included to sweeten the deal on that front.
"justapassenger"



I'll see what I can find out. I work for the consultant doing the civil design elements (well, geometry) for Goodwood and we are also doing early works for Wayville station. I understand that as result off the Goodwood Junction track arrangement, the Belair line has been effectively from the eastern side of the rail corridor to the western side through to Adelaide station i.e. there is technically no crossover of the two lines (although I would have thought there'd be something at Wayville for operational flexibility.

I will confirm the track layout at Wayville.

Cheers,
Joshua

  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Yeah I'd suspect there is just enough room to fit 4 tracks and 2 island platforms in that space. You'd have to prune out some of the embankment next to the showgrounds, but it's wasted ground anyway.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways




Yeah I'd suspect there is just enough room to fit 4 tracks and 2 island platforms in that space. You'd have to prune out some of the embankment next to the showgrounds, but it's wasted ground anyway.

"fabricator"


One fully accessible standard-compliant island platform at most, definitely not two with the restriction that the underpass width and the ARTC line impose.

One is what we're getting, with a conventional side platform carved out of the embankment on the eastern side.

  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus

Visited the site this morning. It is interesting the solution they have chosen to keep the freight line through. Would be interesting to watch a freight weave through, but alas I was too late in the morning. Noted that platforms 1 and 2 have been significantly shorter, and platform 3/4 hole extends through now. The little shortcut that ran parallel to the from Victoria St crossing on the eastern side is long gone. Here's hoping it is reinstated.

The signals that we at the end of platform 1/2 are resting comfortably at the end of 3/4 and the supporting gantry is gone.

  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Anyone got some picture updates DPTI reported yesterday that they have now begun the underpass excavation I'm interested to see what the big hole looks like
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner




Anyone got some picture updates DPTI reported yesterday that they have now begun the underpass excavation I'm interested to see what the big hole looks like

"Milkomeda"


It'a hole getting deeper. I looked inot it this morning from SASMEE, ring side seat.

When I looked into the hole there was nothing in it.

Seriously I could only see towards the BH creek. The have drilled and poured a row of secant piles on the western side closer to the actual crossing. Even as an experienced engineer it is diffcult to work out how it will work. They are pouring a band beam which doen't appear deep enough.

Come SASMEE next public day and ask for the treasurer, he's a good mate of mine and he will then, if free, take you to the north end of the SASMEE property to have a look.

Regards
Ian

  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I've come for a walk tonight and am posting this from the north east corner of the works, granted it's 10.45pm and a bit dark but none the less the view is clear. The concrete pour looks like a work of art, it might not be deep, but it 'looks right' to my non civil engineering trained eye. Off to see what I can find on the south west, if I can get there.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA

Some very nice rio work for BHC diversion between the tram overpass and the skate park ahead of the concrete pour. SG still appears to be on solid earth embankment, hard to see the Goodwood platform lights make it difficult to see what's happening below track level at this distance.

Brown snake cuising the southern perimeter footpaths of the swimming club.

  jimmyj76au Beginner

Hasn't taken long for the local NIMBYs to start complaining about the noise associated with the construction!!!
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park



Hasn't taken long for the local NIMBYs to start complaining about the noise associated with the construction!!!

"jimmyj76au"


Devon Street South runs along the railway line, don't forget.   Right next to the work.

A goodly number of locals commenting on the report seem to have no problems with the work.

  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park

Brown snake cuising the southern perimeter footpaths of the swimming club.
"Aaron"


These seem to be around in great quantity this year.

  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
^ yeah s/he wasn't too interested in me, decent size, maybe 4', maybe a bit bigger, what surprised me was that with the construction and vibration through the ground of the drilling and digging etc that there would be a snake anywhere near the project. I would have thought they would have tootled off up or down the creek long before now.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Just a bit surprised at a Brown Snake in that patch of the Black Forest. I'd have thought that a Red-bellied Black Snake was far more likely... but, they hide really well. If you come across a Brown Snake, just back off: they lack predictability, and on a hot day can be plain psycho.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA

I do a bit of a double take at it, and watched it pretty closely for a few moments, the lighting was subdued and I did doubt it being a brownie, but it would have to have been the most olive colour red belly black ever. It was also probably just a whisker too slender and a bit too long to be a black in my experience and had quite fine scales, I generally associate black snakes as having a larger coarser scale formation than this one seemed to have (from several large feet away).

Rest assured, wearing shorts and thongs, I wasn't getting too close, but I was paying close attention once I saw it... It actually seemed quite relaxed, just out for a cruise, none too interested in my activities, I probably represented a meal just a little on the large side for it.

  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA

Just watched M whatever it was head through Goodwood works for the pedestrian maze at the bowls club near SASMEE. I was wide awake and it startled me to see it close without hearing it, it passed with some noise but hardly a lot. If I were in a house asleep I'd never have known it went past.

Wonder if the crew were surprised to see someone standing on a maze at 2.45am, but they probably didn't even see me.

Here's a GWA empty grain going up the hill now, a successful 20 mins!

  steam4ian Chief Commissioner


An update

Plenty happening on site.

Today they were working on the bridge section with concrete being poured on what appears to be the decking but still a way to go. The pile borer is still active at the northern end.

it will not be many weeks (suggest about 4 to allow the concrete to gain strength) and they will be able to redirect the SG line over the bridge and back to its final alignment, the southern approach track has been built to about level with SASMEE's northern fence.

When you consider what is taking place you can understand why the Belair line has been closed. See also the complete 4 road track rebuild between Goodwood and Nairne Junction.

Regards
Ian

  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The ARTC track is now layed over the dive roof, albeit unballasted.

I believe the ARTC track is to be reconnected to the new section tomorrow.
  Seldom_21 Junior Train Controller

Location: South Australia



The ARTC track is now layed over the dive roof, albeit unballasted.
I believe the ARTC track is to be reconnected to the new section tomorrow.

"Pressman"


Sounds like it's all running to schedule. Would be great for Belair passengers if the line were to open early.

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