Refurbisment of 3801

 
  ironside32 Beginner

Does anybdoy know what is happening with 3801?
The project webiste has been silent since August 2011

Sponsored advertisement

  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Lots of things have happened back at Chollura- But I am afraid not much has happened over in Germany- *Edit* Actually the way things are going, they will run out of Stuff to do at Chollura before the Boiler gets underway from Germany
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang

The only information I have found is from the December issue of e news which doesn't say much  (page 24 I believe).

http://heritageexpress.com.au/pages/media/RTM_e-News/2012-12.htm




  allambee Chief Train Controller




The only information I have found is from the December issue of e news which doesn't say much (page 24 I believe).

http://heritageexpress.com.au/pages/media/RTM_e-News/2012-12.htm




"TheFish"


If you really want to know, try using this tool.
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/xref/inforce/?xref=Type=act%20AND%20Year=2009%20AND%20no=52&nohits=y


Enquires on how to lodge a request, go to the website
http://www.oic.nsw.gov.au


email icinfo@oic.nsw.gov.au">oicinfo@oic.nsw.gov.au

  Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!
You'd think everything else would've been worked on and refurbished/replaced while the boiler was being stuffed around with in Chermany. Couldn't they just patch up the old boiler until the other one comes back? (Hopefully the way it should've been in the first place!)
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
I am perplexed at why they haven't reconditioned a spare (assuming there is one); or found one in good condition elsewhere, allah ARHS-Act with 6029, whilst waiting for der Germans to build/fix/finish the new one. It would certainly stop a lot of whining.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld

I am perplexed at why they haven't reconditioned a spare (assuming there is one); or found one in good condition elsewhere, allah ARHS-Act with 6029, whilst waiting for der Germans to build/fix/finish the new one. It would certainly stop a lot of whining.
"Barrington Womble"


So are you saying there are 38 class compatible boilers for the taking? I don't know either way, just asking is all...

  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
I am perplexed at why they haven't reconditioned a spare (assuming there is one); or found one in good condition elsewhere, allah ARHS-Act with 6029, whilst waiting for der Germans to build/fix/finish the new one. It would certainly stop a lot of whining.


So are you saying there are 38 class compatible boilers for the taking? I don't know either way, just asking is all...
Graham4405
No I don't, which is why I'm only working on possible scenarios at the moment. I know there are spare 'Pig' boilers about, so I don't see why there wouldn't be a 38 boiler laying about somewhere waiting to be discovered.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

BM3801  wrote:

On a more serious note, there is a small update on the loco in the November issue of Roundhouse detailing the repair of the chimney between July and September 2012. It was discovered during work on the smokebox that the chimney was not positioned correctly, which is important for the most efficient steaming and fuel economy, and that it may have be incorrectly positioned since the Bicentennial Train operations. In addition to repairing this major task, the air-scoop and frames for the lantern-top cowlings were also refurbished, the smokebox shell was worked on and repaired, the new chimney extension had its flange welded on, the testing and fitting of cylinder and steam-chest drain cocks have been completed, and the pneumatic operating gear and pull rods have been fitted up and tested. With the chi

  OK2RUN Assistant Commissioner


On a more serious note, there is a small update on the loco in the November issue of Roundhouse detailing the repair of the chimney between July and September 2012. It was discovered during work on the smokebox that the chimney was not positioned correctly, which is important for the most efficient steaming and fuel economy, and that it may have be incorrectly positioned since the Bicentennial Train operations. In addition to repairing this major task, the air-scoop and frames for the lantern-top cowlings were also refurbished, the smokebox shell was worked on and repaired, the new chimney extension had its flange welded on, the testing and fitting of cylinder and steam-chest drain cocks have been completed, and the pneumatic operating gear and pull rods have been fitted up and tested. With the chimney tasks complete, attention has turned back to the self-cleaning smokebox.
"BM3801"

  Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!




On a more serious note, there is a small update on the loco in the November issue of Roundhouse detailing the repair of the chimney between July and September 2012. It was discovered during work on the smokebox that the chimney was not positioned correctly, which is important for the most efficient steaming and fuel economy, and that it may have be incorrectly positioned since the Bicentennial Train operations. In addition to repairing this major task, the air-scoop and frames for the lantern-top cowlings were also refurbished, the smokebox shell was worked on and repaired, the new chimney extension had its flange welded on, the testing and fitting of cylinder and steam-chest drain cocks have been completed, and the pneumatic operating gear and pull rods have been fitted up and tested. With the chimney tasks complete, attention has turned back to the self-cleaning smokebox.
"BM3801"


Fitters have checked the fault and say it's "OK to Run".
"OK2RUN"


Silly question...wouldn't it need the boiler for it to be ok to run?



  beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gorton Foundry
It's a Railway joke Kev.
  Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!



It's a Railway joke Kev.

"beyerpeacock"

Ah, ok....it's one I haven't heard of around the VR...unless I've been in the wrong place at the wrong time or is it a NSWGR joke?

  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned






It's a Railway joke Kev.

"beyerpeacock"

Ah, ok....it's one I haven't heard of around the VR...unless I've been in the wrong place at the wrong time or is it a NSWGR joke?

"Serviceton_Kev"


Yeah it is a NSW one as is, No faults found logbook changed.

  Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!







It's a Railway joke Kev.

"beyerpeacock"

Ah, ok....it's one I haven't heard of around the VR...unless I've been in the wrong place at the wrong time or is it a NSWGR joke?

"Serviceton_Kev"


Yeah it is a NSW one as is, No faults found logbook changed.

"Black Hoppers"

That explains it then! Wink
  M636C Minister for Railways


A Recent British View



By Geoff Courtney

OFFICIALS are remaining tightlipped about reports that the troubled restoration of Australia’s flagship preserved steam locomotive has been hit by further major problems. Streamlined Pacific No. 3801 – regarded by enthusiasts down under and in the UK as the Australian equivalent of No. 4472 Flying Scotsman due to both its iconic status and current delayed and stuttering overhaul – is owned by the New South Wales state government through its operator RailCorp.

Built in 1943 and withdrawn from service in 1962 for preservation, it was taken off railtour duty in 2007 for a £1.25 million overhaul at RailCorp’s Chullora workshop in western Sydney that was scheduled to be completed two years ago. Part of the overhaul included a new £590,000 all-welded boiler built by DB Meiningen in Germany – which manufactured the boiler for A1 Peppercorn Pacific No. 60163 Tornado. The boiler for No. 3801 arrived in Australia in October 2010, but reports began to emerge that all was not well with the project, although such rumours were played down by officials who admitted to “technical issues” but claimed they were being resolved. However, in August 2011, it became evident that the problems weren’t merely technical issues that could be resolved. The NSW Rail Transport Museum, which operates the locomotive on behalf of RailCorp, issued a website statement admitting that there were a number of problems with the new boiler, some of which it described as very serious. As a result, said the statement, the boiler – which it said did not fit correctly into the locomotive’s frame – was being returned to Germany for rectification which would include replacement of the defective boiler barrel with one of true conical form, and reattachment of the front tubeplate accurately to allow correct interface of the boiler with the smokebox. It is believed that this was the highest profile steam locomotive restoration in preservation that had resulted in a new boiler being returned to its manufacturer for major rectification without it being used. The museum statement was followed three months later by another, in which Marianne Hammerton, director of the Office of Rail Heritage at RailCorp, described the rejected boiler as “not fit for purpose”.

The defective boiler left Australia in November 2011 for an approximate seven-week sea journey back to Germany, and with DB having told RailCorp the rectification would take about 20 weeks, its return to Sydney would realistically have been expected by the end of July last year. But with no reported sightings of the rectified boiler back in Australia as 2012 drew to a close, enthusiasts began to express concerns, and Heritage Railway emailed museum PR spokesman Liam Bathgate last month seeking an update on the situation with the boiler. He replied that due to people still returning to work after the Christmas break – the email was dated January 16, more than three weeks after Christmas – it would be “a little while before I can get back to you”. Pressed further, he clarified nothing other than saying that RailCorp was considering a media release which would be forwarded when approved. With this not forthcoming, RailCorp’s Marianne Hammerton was emailed a series of questions, asking where the boiler was, why the timetable had slipped so much if it was still in Germany, whether DB Meiningen was having problems with the rectification work, when No. 3801 would be back on the main line, and whether there was any possibility that the restoration would be aborted. She did not reply, and six days later Heritage Railway sent a second email, in response to which RailCorp media advisor Samuel Bartlett blamed the delay in replying on a public holiday in Australia and said a response would be sent the following day. This response was duly received, but it failed to address most of the questions put to Marianne Hammerton. It did, however, confirm that the boiler was still in Germany and that work was progressing to rectify construction defects, including the manufacture of a new boiler barrel. It also said that a RailCorp engineer visited DB in December to monitor progress, and that he would return to Germany twice this year. The rectified boiler, said Samuel, was “expected” to return to Australia later this year. No attempt was made by Samuel to explain the reason for the delay in the return of the boiler from Germany, whether DB Meiningen was having problems with the rectifications, when No. 3801 would return to the main line, or whether the restoration would be called off. In reply, Heritage Railway told Samuel that his response indicated that all was not well with the project, and that reports from Australia said DB Meiningen was having problems with the second boiler barrel. He was invited to rebut these reports and answer the questions put to Ms Hammerton, but as this issue went to press no reply had been received. In addition, Mathias Tank, spokesman for DB Meiningen owner Deutsche Bahn, had not responded to emails. Such a lack of information from RailCorp, NSW Rail Transport Museum and DB merely adds petrol to the flames of rumour among Australian linesiders and enthusiasts that the restoration is once again facing a crisis, more than five years after it started and two years after it was due to be completed.

One exasperated enthusiast blogged: “How can anyone think that not keeping the public up to date (with the work on the boiler) will stop rumour and innuendo about what is currently going on?” He also said pointedly that the restoration of No. 3801 was coming out the pockets of NSW taxpayers, and bemoaned the “deafening silence coming from all the parties involved”.

Another said: “There are serious rumours circulating again, they are already widespread and it does not help the situation to let speculation about the issue run rampant.” But in the global world of steam locomotive preservation, speculation will inevitably and understandably run rampant in the event of silence or non-information from officialdom.

"Heritage Railway Issue 173"


  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not

So what do people think of the above article?

Kind Regards

  M636C Minister for Railways





So what do people think of the above article?

Kind Regards

"lsrailfan"


Well, they got one basic fact wrong....

3801 was built (or completed at least) in 1942 which date was on its builder's plate.

The fact that an engineer has visited Germany and will do so again is news to me. Not much else in all those words.

Unlike Flying Scotsman, which has real problems (the last photo I saw appeared to show the centre cylinder missing), 3801 just needs a correctly built boiler. If the Germans can't build one that fits, get someone else to build it.

M636C

  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not

Which begs the question - Why the bloody hell did they send it over- If the Germans can't build one correctly- The article in question appears to more or less confirm that there are serious problems Again with the Boiler, If it were me I would just cut my Losses and get it built by a company out here who knows what they are doing

Kind Regards

  allambee Chief Train Controller




Which begs the question - Why the bloody hell did they send it over- If the Germans can't build one correctly- The article in question appears to more or less confirm that there are serious problems Again with the Boiler, If it were me I would just cut my Losses and get it built by a company out here who knows what they are doing
Kind Regards
"lsrailfan"


I strongly suspect the decision to award the tender was because of tender rigging and they wanted the Germans to get the order no matter what.
They aren't supposed to do it, and for a NSW public service position you could find yourself before ICAC.
But it happens all the time (because its human nature show some bias) and if you have been in the game long enough you know to do it and get away with it.

For example, say you have structural steel tender package for a job in Sydney, you have a favourite fabrication yard ( there is no bribery going on, you just like them becuase you are set in your ways) you want to award the job too, but there are also 2 similar yards in Sydney. Company proceedures say you must go out to three companies for a price. What do you do? You go to your favourite in Sydney, another in Newcastle and Wollongong. Transport prices will kill the other two bids.
Years ago when I worked at the Electricity Commission they used to have 3 person tender review panels to help avoid this, 1 person from Engineering 1 person from Procurement and 1 person from Estimating. There was always one last back check, if someone on the panel really objected strongly, the review would go the project director for determination.
Due to numerious cutbacks, rationalisations etc over the years I'm not sure if the NSW government still does things this way for major purchase items.

What I'm saying is the technical reviews might have been rigged, but if the reviews was done all above board and according to Railcorp proceedures, and they decidied to go against the tender evaluations, heads should roll, especially the person earning $262,637+ to manage the office of rail heritage.

If I was one of the unsuccessful tenderers who priced 3801's boiler and the tender reviews were rigged, I would be asking the office of rail heritage to reimburse my tendering costs.

You want to see pics of what 3801 currently looks like? Better look now, as poor Michael Amendolia will probably be made to take them down once I'm posted this link.
http://michaelamendolia.photoshelter.com/image/I0000L9w9x9njZA8

  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not

Heads up everyone I think this is going to be talked about on 2GB Shortly

Kind Regards

  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner




Heads up everyone I think this is going to be talked about on 2GB Shortly

Kind Regards

"lsrailfan"


FYI it was spoken and talked about for quite awhile between 1 and 3 and Chris Smith says he is going to take up the fight to get things moving with the boiler.I missed the initial phone call that sparked it off. Weather anything thing comes of it is another matter.  And even  today David Hill who was the Minister for transport rang up and spoke about the 1988 rebuild. "My only regret was that I didnt give 3801 limited a longer contract" he pleaded with the then minister to extend 3801 limited's contract beyond 2006. He blames RTM for this debarcle. Tomorrow he hopes to get ministers on the radio and explain why its taking so long.

  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not

Did anything happen on the Chris Smith Program today about the 3801 or not?

Kind Regards

  grant3830 Junior Train Controller




Did anything happen on the Chris Smith Program today about the 3801 or not?

Kind Regards
"lsrailfan"


The transport minister was on and said they expect the boiler to return to Australia towards the end of the year.

  tezza Chief Commissioner

   Does anyone have any informative , in depth and usefull information regarding what was discussed on the Chris Smith 2GB radio  program with the Transporr Minister concerning 3801 and the boiler problems?

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: jt393, Rad, supersix, wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.