Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Have people stopped listening to Malcolm Turnbull ?
freightgate
It's not so much have people stopped listening to Malcolm, Bill and the others ...........
it's who has ever believed what any of them say?

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
How many times have Ministers praised the Greens for "working with the Government" to pass legislation Surprised
Groundrelay
Both sides of the duopoly have been prepared to work with the Greens in the past to get what they want; hell, the Liberals in Mayo are telling their voters to put Family First second on their ballot. Do they really have that much in common with Family First or do they just find them the least repugnant?
There's only so many times you can say "jobs and growth" before people will switch off to you. Seems ol' Mal hasn't grasped that yet...
Greensleeves
And who do they think they're kidding? Johnny Howard was in Adelaide last week saying that people are manifestly better off with the Liberals and their wonderful (so-called) free-trade agreements... who is better off? I can't think of anyone I know who has actually benefited from the FTA's in the way that Howard describes. It's as if they think parroting the party line will eventually convince punters that it's good for them.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Just hearing on the Radio that the coalition are now raging hot favourites to win the Election on July 2

Kind Regards
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Just hearing on the Radio that the coalition are now raging hot favourites to win the Election on July 2

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
Favourites? To who? Or is this another one where Malcolm has already declared he's won?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Just hearing on the Radio that the coalition are now raging hot favourites to win the Election on July 2
"lsrailfan"
From a very authoritative source, no doubt.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Just hearing on the Radio that the coalition are now raging hot favourites to win the Election on July 2
From a very authoritative source, no doubt.
Valvegear
what are you talking about?  it was only from 2gb, the coalition's favourite station Razz
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
LOL:lol:
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Both Penny Wong and Christopher Pyne are urging me not to vote for Nick Xenophon (Advertiser). Sorry, but the fact that neither of the cosy duopoly parties want me to do that only makes me want to do it more...
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Both Penny Wong and Christopher Pyne are urging me not to vote for Nick Xenophon (Advertiser). Sorry, but the fact that neither of the cosy duopoly parties want me to do that only makes me want to do it more...
don_dunstan
TV ads here in Adelaide from the labour party are trying to criticize Xenophon Team members, so yep they are truly scared of what can happen
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Both Penny Wong and Christopher Pyne are urging me not to vote for Nick Xenophon (Advertiser). Sorry, but the fact that neither of the cosy duopoly parties want me to do that only makes me want to do it more...
TV ads here in Adelaide from the labour party are trying to criticize Xenophon Team members, so yep they are truly scared of what can happen
Pressman
I've seen those - I think there's a lot of panic about the prospect of NXT gaining three or four senate seats and perhaps a few House of Representative seats as well. Christopher Pyne was still going crook yesterday saying that a hung parliament was worse for the nation than a Labor government (much as I'd suspected); there was also an article in The Australian saying that Pyne is safe in his seat but that Briggs in Mayo was in serious trouble. As per Israilfan's post earlier, they're saying that Labor is still very much short of a swing that it will need to win office - and that the problem is very much that they aren't polling well in the marginals:

The polling of more than 500 people in each seat comes as the Australian Electoral Commission revealed yesterday that 220,000 people had already voted, with a record four million tipped to cast their ballot before July 2.

The results across the 10 ­marginal seats that Bill Shorten and Labor have targeted suggest the opposition will win only ­between one and three seats, with two others in reach.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
4m voters will vote before the day, wow!
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
4m voters will vote before the day, wow!
I'm taking that to mean the general public are tired of the election campaign. Early voters are being asked if we're actually allowed to vote early, apparently because they want us to hear all the arguments (that doesn't mean anyone's actually listening though) but when I did so I got the idea that the person/people at the voting booth really couldn't give a smeg about whether you could or were telling porkies about it. And really, why should they?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
4m voters will vote before the day, wow!
I'm taking that to mean the general public are tired of the election campaign. Early voters are being asked if we're actually allowed to vote early, apparently because they want us to hear all the arguments (that doesn't mean anyone's actually listening though) but when I did so I got the idea that the person/people at the voting booth really couldn't give a smeg about whether you could or were telling porkies about it. And really, why should they?
Greensleeves
I generally always vote early because I can't be fagged with the hysteria of party faithful and the long lines on election day... I don't think I've ever been asked why I'm voting early, they don't seem to care as long as you're actually on the roll.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Nick Xenophon in the Financial Review on trade and "free-trade agreements" - I really can't see what's so terrible about what he's saying, it's only common sense. None of our major trading partners have completely level playing fields - hell, Thailand wouldn't even honour the critical parts of their agreement with us and Johnny Howard just sat on his hands.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
The latest Liberal ad on TV has to be one of the worst and silliest I've seen in years. A (supposed) tradie saying that Bill Shorten has declared war on the banks, declared war on this and that, and therefore," he's declared war on me because it will all put me out of work."
It's authorised by Tony Nutt who I thought had more brains than that.
I wonder whether anyone who can think would actually believe such rubbish.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It's also reinforcing that idea that the only way for 'average' people to get ahead is to put their money into property and it's really dishonest in how it does it... nobody is abolishing negative gearing, Shorten's very reasonable proposals were to restrict it to new builds only to try and encourage more construction; existing negative gearing landlords were to be grandfathered so they could keep doing it.

Average people being encouraged to sink all their investment money/super into housing is not actually productive for the national economy... we can't put it on a boat and export it - and it's not necessarily a safe thing to do with your money, ask anyone who bought investment properties in Perth in the last two years.
  1771D Junior Train Controller

This ad is the worst and most dishonest of the election campaign so far......and bloody insulting to boot!!!
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Do you think that the add will cost Turnco.. er Turnbull votes
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The latest Liberal ad on TV has to be one of the worst and silliest I've seen in years. A (supposed) tradie saying that Bill Shorten has declared war on the banks, declared war on this and that, and therefore," he's declared war on me because it will all put me out of work."
It's authorised by Tony Nutt who I thought had more brains than that.
I wonder whether anyone who can think would actually believe such rubbish.
Valvegear
The ad & the actor has been daubed on Twitter as "The Fake Tradie" with one tweet saying "he just wants a fair go dinki di VB cricket shannon noll BBQ crack at negatively gearing his 5th home"
A Parody "Fake Tradie" account has also appeared with tweets like "Time for smoko. Popping over to the shops to pick up meat pie, a chocolate milk, and a couple of investment properties."
I do wonder how long before they pull the ad off the air?
  georges Chief Train Controller

Nick Xenophon in the Financial Review on trade and "free-trade agreements" - I really can't see what's so terrible about what he's saying, it's only common sense. None of our major trading partners have completely level playing fields - hell, Thailand wouldn't even honour the critical parts of their agreement with us and Johnny Howard just sat on his hands.
don_dunstan
There are free trade agreements and there are free trade agreements (FTAs). The most common, almost the only ones, we hear about today are bilateral FTAs. As implied by their name, they are negotiated and signed between two countries. These agreements do not even provide for free trade in all goods and services that the two countries exchange with one another. For example, the US/Australia FTA excludes sugar - US high-cost sugar could not compete against Queensland sugar. The Australia/China FTA did not reduce Chinese tariffs on  sugar, rice, wool, cotton, wheat, maize or canola. Chinese producers cannot compete with Australian exports of these commodities. Other bilateral FTAs have obvious disadvantages for Australia’s overall interests.

The other type of FTAs are multilateral. These are negotiated from time to time by the almost 200 members of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) under its auspices. They take years to work out. Bilateral agreements are no substitute for multilateral agreements.

Bilateral FTAs are trade-diverting. That is, they do not increase the volume of world trade or, therefore, the welfare of the world’s citizens. They merely distort patterns of trade by reducing tariffs and other trade barriers on products covered by the FTA. They are a political stunt, pandering to those commercial and other interests who consider themselves likely to benefit from bilateral FTAs. In general they do not deserve the name of Free Trade Agreement, no matter what Andrew Robb claims.

Multilateral FTAs, on the other hand, enhance world trade and welfare by permitting a better allocation of resources - land, labour and capital - to those uses where they are the most productive. They reduce barriers to trade on most internationally-traded products. They positively assist each WTO member country to better specialise in producing the goods and/or services that they can do better than any other country.

Let’s not allow the problems of the bilateral FTAs to distort our perception of the substantial benefits in growth that have occurred since the world started multilaterally reducing tariffs and other barriers to trade at the end of World War 2. Senator Xenophon chooses to lay some of the problems of bilateral FTAs at the feet of Alan Oxley. He overlooks Oxley’s role in creating the Cairns group that led to agricultural exporters, including Australia, starting to change the policies of the USA and the EU that discriminated against agricultural products. Whatever the manufacturing fetishists may feel, Australia retains a strong absolute advantage in agriculture.

Arrium’s bad commercial decisions have not helped the company. See http://www.afr.com/business/manufacturing/whyalla-blast-furnace-is-arriums-big-steel-elephant-20160406-gnzz1s. What are we now to think of Australia’s failed political system where both parties are falling over themselves to hook up a floundering Arrium to a heart and lung machine, at least for a cosmetically acceptable interval?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
The latest Liberal ad on TV has to be one of the worst and silliest I've seen in years. A (supposed) tradie saying that Bill Shorten has declared war on the banks, declared war on this and that, and therefore," he's declared war on me because it will all put me out of work."
It's authorised by Tony Nutt who I thought had more brains than that.
I wonder whether anyone who can think would actually believe such rubbish.
The ad & the actor has been daubed on Twitter as "The Fake Tradie" with one tweet saying "he just wants a fair go dinki di VB cricket shannon noll BBQ crack at negatively gearing his 5th home"
A Parody "Fake Tradie" account has also appeared with tweets like "Time for smoko. Popping over to the shops to pick up meat pie, a chocolate milk, and a couple of investment properties."
I do wonder how long before they pull the ad off the air?
Pressman
I'm not sure what my favourite part of the ad is- his terrible attempt to sound like a tradie or the last line: "So I reckon we should just see it through, and stick with the current mob for a while." LaughingRolling Eyes

Almost sounds as if they're admitting they've been no good!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Georges: Thanks for an informative dissertation. I don't think anyone could argue that the EEC and American agricultural subsidies were a good thing so it's certainly wonderful that we got agreement some years ago to progressively wind those back. However my concerns about free-trade agreements extend beyond whether or not they're fair or not and I do wonder what might happen further down the track once we've made the transition to the wonderful world of post-FTA structural adjustment. We keep getting told it's going to increase jobs in our country but I can see with my own eyes that the poverty and joblessness are actually increasing around me - for which apparently the defence contract will fill the holes. I really felt as a resident of South Australia that we were supposed to be grateful for those crumbs from the table after years of systematic stripping of jobs - and is Malcolm really serious when he talks about the "multipliers, supply chains" for the submarines? It's extremely specialised, and not a mass-produced consumer item and I really doubt that it will have multipliers though the economy in the same way that the car industry did... anyway...

My other concern is the lack of strategic reserves of things that we're completely reliant on like car parts, consumer goods etc that will leave us really vulnerable if there's an interruption to global trade... dunno, I just don't believe the story we've been sold about FTA's in general. But we're all entitled to our opinions.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Almost sounds as if they're admitting they've been no good!
Greensleeves
We're not nearly as bad as Rudd/Gillard/Rudd... so vote for us again and we promise it won't be worse than the Labor Party?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Australian is reporting this morning that Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull are the two most-disliked and least trusted leaders in the 40-year history of the poll. Political editor Denis Shanahan reports that:

Dissatisfaction, dislike and voter indecision are the highest jointly for the leaders since 1987 and that includes Paul Keating and John Hewson, John Howard and Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard and Rudd and Abbott at the last election.

The two parties need to ask themselves why they're both so badly on the nose with the public.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Australian is reporting this morning that Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull are the two most-disliked and least trusted leaders in the 40-year history of the poll. Political editor Denis Shanahan reports that:

Dissatisfaction, dislike and voter indecision are the highest jointly for the leaders since 1987 and that includes Paul Keating and John Hewson, John Howard and Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard and Rudd and Abbott at the last election.

The two parties need to ask themselves why they're both so badly on the nose with the public.
don_dunstan
And not just these guys, but the Greens as well (particularly in NSW):  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-20/duffy-inside-the-secret-civil-war-of-the-nsw-greens/7525874

Then again, at least it's not as bad as Italy where a cult-like party won big at last weekend's mayoral elections: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/beppe-grillos-m5s-is-a-scientology-style-cult/

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