Has the Andrews Government done enough on transport to get re-elected?

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan
Overcrowding on Metro Trains. No plan
Poor maintenance across the Metro Network. No Plan
No plan for Airport Rail link
No plan or delivery of port shuttles already announced
No plan to work quicker on inland rail ports
No further capacity upgrades for Vline
No ability to currently implement the Bendigo Metro Plan
No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.
Mernda not happening fast enough and scope needs review.  Forget delivering the initial plan now. World has moved on.
No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
No integrated Victorian freight plan to place more rail freight

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan

No plan for Airport Rail link


No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.

No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
bevans

Considering the Andrews Government has been in office less than 18 months out of 48 months of its term. I think it's a bit spurious to be writing off that team.

The items I left in your list were NOT policies of the Andrews government, therefore they don't have to implement what wasn't their policy to do so...or they are issues to be or are being addressed by PTV.

What is the acronym GIFT Question

Mike.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

.... and not to mention:
- No line-speed increases anywhere on the Bendigo-Echuca line despite level crossing and sleeper upgrades.
- No plan to bring SG into Bendigo from Inglewood.
- No plan to rehabilitate the Dookie line.
- No action on several intermodal sites (i.e. Marong, Lyndhurst etc)
- No plan to duplicate all of Upfield line with through-connection to Somerton.

Really, it's a case of a massive backlog (decades in the making) that an under-resourced department has little or no hope of executing.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Really, it's a case of a massive backlog (decades in the making) that an under-resourced department has little or no hope of executing.
Carnot
This is true, and is compounded by the number of single-track sections on our network, the lack of maintenance, infrequent bus services etc.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan
Overcrowding on Metro Trains. No plan
Poor maintenance across the Metro Network. No Plan
No plan for Airport Rail link
No plan or delivery of port shuttles already announced
No plan to work quicker on inland rail ports
No further capacity upgrades for Vline
No ability to currently implement the Bendigo Metro Plan
No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.
Mernda not happening fast enough and scope needs review.  Forget delivering the initial plan now. World has moved on.
No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
No integrated Victorian freight plan to place more rail freight
bevans
They have been in Government for 18 months and you are already throwing them out at the next election in late 2018. You don't know what will happen between now and then. Maybe they get the vline thing fixed and get those 50 level crossings done. What will you say then?
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
What is the acronym GIFT Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
It's a secret!
I think that the 'IFT' bit might be 'Intermodal Freight Terminal' but no idea about the 'G'.
Let's know when/if you find out, please, and then we can all appear knowledgeable.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
They have been in Government for 18 months and you are already throwing them out at the next election in late 2018. You don't know what will happen between now and then. Maybe they get the vline thing fixed and get those 50 level crossings done. What will you say then?
simstrain

To make anything happen in transport in your state under a 4 year term you must already have the plans and projects in place within the first 6 months.  Not having this in place and relying on a string of policy announcements killed off the previous Liberal Government.

If you think that through and you are at 18 months with not much happening @bevans could be right as moving mountains with all the operator issues is just not possible.  They are already in BIG TROUBLE and that is not talking about the Port Leasing.

If you need reminding folks https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/-our-sickofovercrowding-understress-commuters-want-change
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
GIFT = Gippsland Intermodal Freight Terminal

Morwell / Maryvale
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Cons
  • No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
  • No plan for Overland upgrades
  • No plan for Leongatha
  • Stony Point electrification no plan.
  • No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
bevans
Get your hand off it mate, you'll go blind if you keep that up.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Cons
  • No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
  • No plan for Overland upgrades
  • No plan for Leongatha
  • Stony Point electrification no plan.
  • No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
Get your hand off it mate, you'll go blind if you keep that up.
LancedDendrite

Why?

I have not seen the Vic Government announce any funding for the Overland despite SA doing so.,

There is no plan at all for western Vicroria rail passenger services beyond Ararat which is a long way from the border.

Stony Point should have been electrified 10 years ago. It is laughable actually.

You will start to see movement  for Drysdale.

B
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan
Overcrowding on Metro Trains. No plan
Poor maintenance across the Metro Network. No Plan
No plan for Airport Rail link
No plan or delivery of port shuttles already announced
No plan to work quicker on inland rail ports
No further capacity upgrades for Vline
No ability to currently implement the Bendigo Metro Plan
No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.
Mernda not happening fast enough and scope needs review.  Forget delivering the initial plan now. World has moved on.
No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
No integrated Victorian freight plan to place more rail freight
"bevans"
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

.... and not to mention:
- No line-speed increases anywhere on the Bendigo-Echuca line despite level crossing and sleeper upgrades.
- No plan to bring SG into Bendigo from Inglewood.
- No plan to rehabilitate the Dookie line.
- No action on several intermodal sites (i.e. Marong, Lyndhurst etc)
- No plan to duplicate all of Upfield line with through-connection to Somerton.

Really, it's a case of a massive backlog (decades in the making) that an under-resourced department has little or no hope of executing.
Carnot
No line-speed increases anywhere on the Bendigo-Echuca line despite level crossing and sleeper upgradesAgree .  But after repeated approaches to VLP and former Minister  Mulder who made the promise it appears that 1.  Rob Barnett  CEO of  VLP  back two made the 100kmh commitment to Mulder if he was given money to do the lx upgrades.2.  That program is complete all but the solar installation at Wakeman Rd  (but still not commissioned after 18 months). 3. Ten bridges have been redecked in steel, and 34,000 concrete sleepers inserted but still a pathetic 75kmh . 4.  VLP doesnt care, not interested in what some past Minsiter and CEO  said, and current Minister probably not even aware of this on going saga. .
- No plan to bring SG into Bendigo from Inglewood.  Potentially there can be if and when there is potential sg freight traffic into/out of Bendigo , but you need a customer/traffic first to justify the capex .
- No plan to rehabilitate the Dookie line.  Why should there be .  What is the need jsutification, actual potential traffic ?
- No action on several intermodal sites (i.e. Marong, Lyndhurst etc)  There has to be the actual traffic  ?
- No plan to duplicate all of Upfield line with through-connection to Somerton. Wrong . There is a PTV plan to upgrade the infrastructure on the Upfield Line and re route  VLP North Eastern bg tarins via Somerton to release tarin paths on the route via  Essendon .  It is a potential medium term  (5-10 year) thing .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Cons
  • No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
  • No plan for Overland upgrades
  • No plan for Leongatha
  • Stony Point electrification no plan.
  • No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
Get your hand off it mate, you'll go blind if you keep that up.

Why?

I have not seen the Vic Government announce any funding for the Overland despite SA doing so.,

There is no plan at all for western Vicroria rail passenger services beyond Ararat which is a long way from the border.

Stony Point should have been electrified 10 years ago. It is laughable actually.

You will start to see movement  for Drysdale.

B
bevans
I have not seen the Vic Government announce any funding for the Overland despite SA doing so.,
The Victorian Government has committed to on going short term funding with South Australia to allow continued operation of The Overland . This is understandable as The Overland is a slow loco hauled train with carriages 60 years old, not attractive to the market .  The Government is developing a first  Regional Passenger Transport Plan, and  Western Victorian  consultation and submissions advocated in a low key way for a faster  VLP  service between Ararat and Horsham to replace the poorly utilized and un attractive Overland .  That plan is supposed to be out around May 2016 . So we wait and see.
But  VLP has shortage of trains and capacity even without the current wheel wear crisis, and providing additional capacity and service frequency on existing routes  will occur before Government introduces and new VLP passenger routes .  
There is no plan at all for western Vicroria rail passenger services beyond Ararat which is a long way from the border.
See above .  

Stony Point should have been electrified 10 years ago. It is laughable actually.
What is laughable is that Stony Point is still running as a train given the patroange involved , when the logical solution of electrification to Baxter, with a high frequency bus service radiating to Stony Point and Mornington providing a much better service at lower cost . PTV planning allows for electrification to Baxter  and stabling there ultimately .

You will start to see movement  for Drysdale.

1. Barely raised as an issue by residents in recent consultation for Regioanl Transport Study .  2.  Former Study by  Mulder seems to have been filed under "missing"  by Sir Humphrey  in  PTV .  In any case it would have been loaded with  excessive costs as the  Geelong - Ballarat study was to ensure that it was never going to viable .
3. Medium term Government has more important fish to fry .  Longer term yes prospect of re-opened line to Drysdale and a new line from Marshall through  Armstrong Creek to Torquay . Together with a re opened Geelong - Ballarat passenger service one then has the guts of a Geelong Metro service from Torquay, Waurn Ponds, and Drysdale extending to  Bannockburn and Lara .  By then it will  2040 and Greater Geelong will be nudging 500,000 population .
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
What is the acronym GIFT Question

Mike.
It's a secret!
I think that the 'IFT' bit might be 'Intermodal Freight Terminal' but no idea about the 'G'.
Let's know when/if you find out, please, and then we can all appear knowledgeable.
YM-Mundrabilla
G for Gippsland...Gippsland Intermodal Freight Terminal /Morwell...a proposal that as been "dormant" for yonks. No takers..!

Edward
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
They haven't done enough, but they probably haven't made enough serious blunders to be booted out of office.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
The State Government has committed $10m for infrastructure funding to support development of the Gippsland Logistics Precinct at Morwell East (formerly known as GIFT). There is diligent work happening behind the scenes to progress the development, for which several volumes could be written in a history back to the late 1990s. It should be noted that we now have a proactive rail operator in Qube, who services the AP Maryvale intermodal business and Government cash to make it happen. This was not the case in 2013/14 when Latrobe City Council did market testing with no government funding at all.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Not nearly enough. All talk mainly and some crackpot ideas and incomplete attention to other projects.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan

No plan for Airport Rail link


No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.

No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale

Considering the Andrews Government has been in office less than 18 months out of 48 months of its term. I think it's a bit spurious to be writing off that team.

The items I left in your list were NOT policies of the Andrews government, therefore they don't have to implement what wasn't their policy to do so...or they are issues to be or are being addressed by PTV.

What is the acronym GIFT Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
I agree with Mike. Flipping heck, I mean 1 This thing has been going on for years and 2 for PT do we really want to go back to the Inaction of the Napthine Government, in Matthew Guy!!!

Michael
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of points for consideration..........

The rail network has been underfunded for many years its not any single parties fault.

Everyone wants service improvements, but seem to think someone else should pay for them. It may come as a surprise to many but the world does not work that way.

Going by comments in these pages a lot of people think railways need to pay there way but roads should get a free ride, that is a recipe for disaster in this day and age.

The current government is committed to replacing good number of level crossings, the total cost of which is significant. I have the strong impression that a lot of people even on Railpage do NOT understand how criticaly important this actual is.

Another extremely important issue that appears to be little understood is the networks core no longer has any free time slots for services, BEFORE anything else is done, even something is crtical as the Dandenong line. the network core MUST be fixed first and no matter what is done it will cost a fortune, the government does have a plan for this, but see item 2......................

woodford
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
A couple of points for consideration..........

The rail network has been underfunded for many years its not any single parties fault.

Everyone wants service improvements, but seem to think someone else should pay for them. It may come as a surprise to many but the world does not work that way.

Going by comments in these pages a lot of people think railways need to pay there way but roads should get a free ride, that is a recipe for disaster in this day and age.

The current government is committed to replacing good number of level crossings, the total cost of which is significant. I have the strong impression that a lot of people even on Railpage do NOT understand how criticaly important this actual is.

Another extremely important issue that appears to be little understood is the networks core no longer has any free time slots for services, BEFORE anything else is done, even something is crtical as the Dandenong line. the network core MUST be fixed first and no matter what is done it will cost a fortune, the government does have a plan for this, but see item 2......................

woodford
woodford
Totally agree. WE must fix the existing network before adding an expensive boondoogle to it.

Michael
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Regarding expansion of passenger rail services beyond Ararat and reinstatement of the Leongatha line, neither of these things have been on the agenda of either political party. Electrification to Baxter and V/line services Geelong-Drysdale have both been the subject of various studies but from memory neither party has committed to either of those things... as I recall the only reason that electrification has been considered to Baxter was so that lay-over sidings could be removed closer to the city (presumably so they could sell them off for apartments... you can never have enough apartments you know!).
  woodford Chief Commissioner

This puzzle entered my mind this morning and is still hanging around taking up space. Smile

Thinking about the performance of the Andrews Government specifically around transport project delivery I am not so sure the the scorecard is all that impressive. I am not sure he would win an election today over his performance.  Let's take a closer look.

Pros

Delivery of a small number of level crossing removals
Off on toll road building once again. Hides the true cost and the deal.
Mildura Standard Gauge project (still not funded and project gaps)

Cons

Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan
Rail Freight into and out of the Port of Melbourne is bordering on crisis. No published plan
Overcrowding on Metro Trains. No plan
Poor maintenance across the Metro Network. No Plan
No plan for Airport Rail link
No plan or delivery of port shuttles already announced
No plan to work quicker on inland rail ports
No further capacity upgrades for Vline
No ability to currently implement the Bendigo Metro Plan
No additional Metro Trains capacity since RRL launch
No Plan to address the gap between Werribee and West Werribee via rail.
Mernda not happening fast enough and scope needs review.  Forget delivering the initial plan now. World has moved on.
No plan for western Victoria passenger rail
No plan for Overland upgrades
No plan for Leongatha
No plan to get GIFT off the ground despiate years of talk.
Capacity issues on the Bendigo line
RRL issues which will need to be addressed.
Stony Point electrification no plan.
No plan for rail services back to Drysdale
No integrated Victorian freight plan to place more rail freight
bevans
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

There's a very serious central problem to this sort of question and that is both the media and the electorate have VERY short memories and if any party solves all the issues early this will be completely forgotten and be called old news by the time the election swings by. This is well undertsood by both parties.

In essence the early part of  a governments term is planning, if at all possible projects must be in full swing in the last year before an election, any earlier and the media will claim the government is living on old promises.

It is very likely the current government will have at least two major rail projects (level crossing replacement and the metro tunnel) on the go by the next election and will be seen as a party that is actualy doing something.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

One of the down points is...................

"Vline fiasco has not resolution in sight. No published plan"

I completely disagree with this statement.

VLine has stated they have an much extended wheel reprofiling and replacement program which will definitely be completed by July.

VLine has CORRECTLY engaged one of the nation's and the world most respected rail trouble shooters to find out what is causing the excessive wear. They are to report by the end of march. This approach is far better than adhoc statements that such and such curve is the issue.

Technical problems MUST be studied properly to gain a correct resolution.

woodford

Post script.............

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder............... Bevans not engaged in putting up a bit of flame bait here is he. he normal strikes me as some one not so idiotic as to put up such an obviously poor statement Wink.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

I believe Gippslanders have cause to cry foul of the attitude toward services.   A quick look at recent history and current proposed projects:


Stuff ups:

Morwell River 1 - collapsed culvert blamed on 'flooding' when it was infrastructure incompetence - buses for weeks.  Train had to hit the fault to know it existed.

Morwell River 2 - same issue, different culvert on the same set of structures.  Same response.  Coaches for weeks while they built a bridge at short notice.  Again a train had to hit the fault to know it was there!

Level crossings Metro - trains cancelled in bulk.  While understanding there is a shortage of rolling stock due to wheel issues, one wonders to why the level crossings are not manned compared to the cost of coaches.  The political stink of Metro v VLine in the air.  The result is one very quiet line with a few sprinters and Bairnsdale loco hauled services.   Coached everywhere.

VLocity wheels - as mentioned previously, they dropped the ball when segregating the Vline/Metro traffic and now not enough trains to go around.

Capacity:

Single line impact of the Bunyip Longwarry section

The eternal 40km/hr travel speed between Dandenong and Melbourne that pretty much includes the Pakenham to Dandenong section now.

Stopping all stations for most services.  No imagination to how the timetable could be run to give service and run time.

Future:

Its confirmed than the level crossing removal project 'skyrail' will not allow for additional express tracks.  Country trains are locked in to more slow running behind suburban stopping services.

No vision to incorporate the scope of the Metro tunnel with the Dandenong corridor to include dual gauge track and see the South East of the city, Hastings and Gippsland connected to the interstate freight network.

A port sale that they the current government wants to see the Port of Hastings not happen for another 50 years.  

#################################

The time is now to build for the future of the City south east and Gippsland and what do we get?  A bunch of level crossing removed at high cost and no increase to the capacity of the transport corridor.  A small benefit road project that should be making a whole lot of people a lot more angry.

Now is the time to lobby local members and get some leadership and vision in place of the acceptance of mediocrity that is the status quo.   Victoria - 'the stupid state' I am afraid.

As they say, 'build it and they will come'
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong

You will start to see movement  for Drysdale.

1. Barely raised as an issue by residents in recent consultation for Regioanl Transport Study .  2.  Former Study by  Mulder seems to have been filed under "missing"  by Sir Humphrey  in  PTV .  In any case it would have been loaded with  excessive costs as the  Geelong - Ballarat study was to ensure that it was never going to viable .
3. Medium term Government has more important fish to fry .  Longer term yes prospect of re-opened line to Drysdale and a new line from Marshall through  Armstrong Creek to Torquay . Together with a re opened Geelong - Ballarat passenger service one then has the guts of a Geelong Metro service from Torquay, Waurn Ponds, and Drysdale extending to  Bannockburn and Lara .  By then it will  2040 and Greater Geelong will be nudging 500,000 population .
kuldalai
With some 17 grade crossings on the existing reservation need to be dealt with and going by the costs associated with current projects in removing these I cannot see that this will get off the ground in our lifetime.

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