Upfield rail tunnel is not viable

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Upfield rail tunnel is not viable for these reasons
1: Doesn't serve a growth corridor
2: Doesn't suffer overcrowding or much constraints in the system
3: Very expensive to achieve very little (not good cost benefit ratio)

Doesn't serve the Northern surburbs to the Hospital and Universities?
-Upfield line has connections to route 59 and 19 tram lines.
-Metro 2 tunnel can achieve for the South Morang line instead

The route 19 tram is terrible and always stuck behind traffic and low capacity
-It will eventually have to get an upgrade this includes tram traffic lights priority, accessible stops and longer trams
-Removing parking off Sydney Road

Why the South Morang line not the Upfield line?
-South Morang will serve Mernda a growth area
-South Morang under overcrowding and under constraints at Clifton Hill
-Upfield line won't serve Wallan and Vline services any time soon

What can be done for Upfield line?
-Remove level crossings
-Duplicate the single track
-Extend to allow Vlines use the line and eventually plan for Wallan electrification

Most students from Upfield head into the University, so how can you provide for this?
-Many connection available
-Upgrades to the tram, bus and cycling routes would be enough
-Metro 1 tunnel would mean many students will move to Arden precinct to access the Uni

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  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
It might not suffer overcrowding, but a tunnel might well prevent it suffering overcrowding in the long term. I really do believe that this diversion will increase patronage on the Upfield line and what would be achieved is hugely underestimated.

The Upfield line has connections to street transit, but the idea is to have heavy rail serve the University. And if one heavy rail line serves the university, it may as well serve the nearest northern suburbs already served by rail. Metro 2 tunnel won't provide a heavy rail link between the University and the nearest northern suburbs.

One of the things you say can be done for the Upfield line is remove level crossings and this underground diversion will remove every level crossing south of Batman.

You admit that most students from Upfield head into Melbourne University. That's the point, diverting the Upfield line will mean they can take the train all the way, without moving to Arden.

Also, this diversion will free up a lot of land in Brunswick, Moreland and Coburg and make way for a tram extension along Moreland road.
  damooops Junior Train Controller

Location: The Revenue Raising State
G'day all.
Yes duplication is whats needed including a second platform at Upfield. I wonder how the connection with the Craigieburn line would look? I can't imagine a flyover being built before Somerton Road to enable the connection to include Roxborough Park. I think they would make use of the disused Somerton broad gauge yard area and connect somewhere near Patullos Lane and finally build the third platform at Craigieburn that was on the original plans. There is also plans for reopening Bevridge station and and extra station called Lockerbie in between Donnybrook and Bevridge. Even the possibility of a station at Patullos Lane. Would a flyover need to be built high enough over the standard gauge line to allow double stack container trains?
Cheers all.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
I'd get rid of some of the stations when the level crossings get removed between Jewell and Fawkner - I'm not sure which ones though.
That'd be a good time to add a standard gauge track although finding room for it could be tricky.
The broad gauge would probably go under the SG at Somerton.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
G'day all.
Yes duplication is whats needed including a second platform at Upfield. I wonder how the connection with the Craigieburn line would look? I can't imagine a flyover being built before Somerton Road to enable the connection to include Roxborough Park. I think they would make use of the disused Somerton broad gauge yard area and connect somewhere near Patullos Lane and finally build the third platform at Craigieburn that was on the original plans. There is also plans for reopening Bevridge station and and extra station called Lockerbie in between Donnybrook and Bevridge. Even the possibility of a station at Patullos Lane. Would a flyover need to be built high enough over the standard gauge line to allow double stack container trains?
Cheers all.
damooops
I don't think there would be a connection. Instead, as the PTV plan outlines, there would most likely be an additional track pair between Somerton and Craigieburn.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Yes duplication is whats needed including a second platform at Upfield. I wonder how the connection with the Craigieburn line would look? I can't imagine a flyover being built before Somerton Road to enable the connection to include Roxborough Park. I think they would make use of the disused Somerton broad gauge yard area and connect somewhere near Patullos Lane and finally build the third platform at Craigieburn that was on the original plans. There is also plans for reopening Bevridge station and and extra station called Lockerbie in between Donnybrook and Bevridge. Even the possibility of a station at Patullos Lane. Would a flyover need to be built high enough over the standard gauge line to allow double stack container trains?
Cheers all.
damooops
A fly-under for the Upfield-Craigieburn line on the southern side of Somerton Road to bring it between the Craigieburn and North-East SG lines could work. No clearance issues with double stacking or the road overbridge that way.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Yes, there are three stations, all in Brunswick, that are all too close. Contrary to the title of the thread (should just be 'Upfield rail tunnel') I actually think that such a rail tunnel should have been built along with the City Loop. It would have removed every swing gate level crossing between Royal Park and Batman all without replacing a single set with boom barriers and pedestrian gates.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It might not suffer overcrowding, but a tunnel might well prevent it suffering overcrowding in the long term. I really do believe that this diversion will increase patronage on the Upfield line and what would be achieved is hugely underestimated.

The Upfield line has connections to street transit, but the idea is to have heavy rail serve the University. And if one heavy rail line serves the university, it may as well serve the nearest northern suburbs already served by rail. Metro 2 tunnel won't provide a heavy rail link between the University and the nearest northern suburbs.

One of the things you say can be done for the Upfield line is remove level crossings and this underground diversion will remove every level crossing south of Batman.

You admit that most students from Upfield head into Melbourne University. That's the point, diverting the Upfield line will mean they can take the train all the way, without moving to Arden.

Also, this diversion will free up a lot of land in Brunswick, Moreland and Coburg and make way for a tram extension along Moreland road.
Myrtone
The only way I could see your dream tunnel link come to reality, would be If a 3rd Melbourne Metro Tunnel was built say starting at

(!!! Warning Foam !!!)

Royal Park (Zoo)
Parkville (Melbourne Metro 1)
Parliament (MURL)
Melbourne Park (Tennis Centre, MCG)
Domain Junction (Melbourne Metro 1)
St Kilda Junction
St Kilda (Acland Street)
Elwood
Elsternwick (Sandringham Line)
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
It might not suffer overcrowding, but a tunnel might well prevent it suffering overcrowding in the long term. I really do believe that this diversion will increase patronage on the Upfield line and what would be achieved is hugely underestimated.

The Upfield line has connections to street transit, but the idea is to have heavy rail serve the University. And if one heavy rail line serves the university, it may as well serve the nearest northern suburbs already served by rail. Metro 2 tunnel won't provide a heavy rail link between the University and the nearest northern suburbs.

One of the things you say can be done for the Upfield line is remove level crossings and this underground diversion will remove every level crossing south of Batman.

You admit that most students from Upfield head into Melbourne University. That's the point, diverting the Upfield line will mean they can take the train all the way, without moving to Arden.

Also, this diversion will free up a lot of land in Brunswick, Moreland and Coburg and make way for a tram extension along Moreland road.
The only way I could see your dream tunnel link come to reality, would be If a 3rd Melbourne Metro Tunnel was built say starting at

(!!! Warning Foam !!!)

Royal Park (Zoo)
Parkville (Melbourne Metro 1)
Parliament (MURL)
Melbourne Park (Tennis Centre, MCG)
Domain Junction (Melbourne Metro 1)
St Kilda Junction
St Kilda (Acland Street)
Elwood
Elsternwick (Sandringham Line)
Nightfire
Give it 50-100 years and I could see such a project being viable (at least the southern section, maybe not the Royal Park- Upfield part). Given that Metro II is still like 30 years away, who knows what transport demands will exist post that.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If they want to use the Upfield line for Vline services, you bet there are no plans for tunnels, deviations etc !!!!

Regards,
David Head
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
There is no plan for any Upfield tunnel, the plan for the Upfield line is to rebuild the line from Upfield to Somerton (Roxburgh Park), duplicate the lot, and send V/Line trains along that route. Yes there are a number of level crossings, but many of these are on the list (long term seperations) to eventually be done, after the current 50.

Yes this tunnel was proposed a few years ago, and in a perfect world, there may be some chance of it happening. We are not in a perfect world, we are in the real world, and aside from Myrtone, there is no political will from either side to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel which provides little benefit.

As for stations on the current Upfield line, yes there are some stations that are quite close together, but I can guarantee you they will not be closed. The political backlash that would result in any suggestion of closing existing railway station is enough to guarantee that it will not happen.

There are literally hundreds of major projects that SHOULD happen in Melbourne, most of them won't. It is almost a miracle that the Metro tunnel is being built, so if you think any government is going to sink billions of dollars on re-aligning a railway that works alright as it is now, you are deluded.

Seriously the foaming on this site is reaching new levels.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

you are deluded.
Gman_86
TL;DR for this thread
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
There is no plan for any Upfield tunnel, the plan for the Upfield line is to rebuild the line from Upfield to Somerton (Roxburgh Park), duplicate the lot, and send V/Line trains along that route. Yes there are a number of level crossings, but many of these are on the list (long term seperations) to eventually be done, after the current 50.

Yes this tunnel was proposed a few years ago, and in a perfect world, there may be some chance of it happening. We are not in a perfect world, we are in the real world, and aside from Myrtone, there is no political will from either side to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel which provides little benefit.

As for stations on the current Upfield line, yes there are some stations that are quite close together, but I can guarantee you they will not be closed. The political backlash that would result in any suggestion of closing existing railway station is enough to guarantee that it will not happen.

There are literally hundreds of major projects that SHOULD happen in Melbourne, most of them won't. It is almost a miracle that the Metro tunnel is being built, so if you think any government is going to sink billions of dollars on re-aligning a railway that works alright as it is now, you are deluded.
Gman_86
1. There has been but no comment.

2. Maybe the reasons for this are political.

3. But if non-stopping trains (such as VLine services) are going to share tracks, then such closure would help, if we can consolidate a substantial portion of tram stops, surely we can do the same with at least a few train stations.

4. Take a look at Sydney, many projects that were planned by John Joe Crew Bradfield have not happened and probably never will for political reasons. No other comment.

I'm just not quite sure what to say on any of this post.

But a note to Sydneysiders reading this; To route the South Morang line to serve the University instead of the Upfield line is like the decision to route the southern part of the Sydney metro through Waterloo, where there is a development potential, instead of through Sydney University where there already is passenger demand now.
More Melbourne University students and staff live along the Upfield line than the South Morang line so diverting the South Morang line through the University instead of the Upfield line is back-to-front. Suburbs serve by the Upfield line are closer to the University than those served by the South Morang line.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

But a note to Sydneysiders reading this; To route the South Morang line to serve the University instead of the Upfield line is like the decision to route the southern part of the Sydney metro through Waterloo, where there is a development potential, instead of through Sydney University where there already is passenger demand now.
More Melbourne University students and staff live along the Upfield line than the South Morang line so diverting the South Morang line through the University instead of the Upfield line is back-to-front. Suburbs serve by the Upfield line are closer to the University than those served by the South Morang line.
Actually it's quite different Sydney Metro is MORE like Melbourne metro than the Upfield Line tunnel. In Melbourne Metro, Arden has development potential (like Waterloo) and serves the University and Hospitals from the West and South of the CBD. Melbourne Metro separates the North and Western lines, exactly like what Sydney Metro does. Melbourne Metro provides a link to the South Eastern corridors where Sydney Metro links South Western corridor, Upfield tunnel links up with CBD. Melbourne has already have well established link with regular tram and bus connections that already serves the University, whereas Sydney only has Buses. Also Myrtone seems to never mention that the Swanston street corridor has like 8 tram routes that terminate there and many students use them from the CBD to the University. Upfield line is much quieter compared with the new North west line for Sydney metro which is on a growth corridor and which has similar  like the Pakenham/Sunbury line for Melbourne Metro.

Mytone has been pushing the proposal only to benefit the students that travel to the University via the route 19 tram which can easily be upgraded to a better status. Whereas in Sydney there are only bus connections which need to widen the road to fit bus lanes and is hard to provide enough capacity. In Melbourne, the current proposal to make the University which is not served by the western suburbs would make students able to access the University using Melbourne Metro from the west. Sydney Metro enables the new North west line to able to access the CBD and the University for students from the North west.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Actually it's quite different Sydney Metro is MORE like Melbourne metro than the Upfield Line tunnel. In Melbourne Metro, Arden has development potential (like Waterloo) and serves the University and Hospitals from the West and South of the CBD. Melbourne Metro separates the North and Western lines, exactly like what Sydney Metro does. Melbourne Metro provides a link to the South Eastern corridors where Sydney Metro links South Western corridor, Upfield tunnel links up with CBD. Melbourne has already have well established link with regular tram and bus connections that already serves the University, whereas Sydney only has Buses. Also Myrtone seems to never mention that the Swanston street corridor has like 8 tram routes that terminate there and many students use them from the CBD to the University. Upfield line is much quieter compared with the new North west line for Sydney metro which is on a growth corridor and which has similar  like the Pakenham/Sunbury line for Melbourne Metro.
"James974"

Very different, the Melbourne Metro will be part of our existing suburban railway network, presumably with the same loading gauge as the City Loop. The Sydney metro will be a separate line not interoperable with their existing suburban network, itself closer to world class that ours. They only have a few level crossings, all on the least busy railways and a lot more sections with more than one track in each direction.
I know the Swanston street corridor has multiple tram routes that terminate there but the University is busy enough the be served by heavy rail.

Mytone has been pushing the proposal only to benefit the students that travel to the University via the route 19 tram which can easily be upgraded to a better status. Whereas in Sydney there are only bus connections which need to widen the road to fit bus lanes and is hard to provide enough capacity. In Melbourne, the current proposal to make the University which is not served by the western suburbs would make students able to access the University using Melbourne Metro from the west. Sydney Metro enables the new North west line to able to access the CBD and the University for students from the North west.
"James974"

How do you upgrade Route 19 to a "better" status? Syndey road is quite narrow and heavily trafficked, and I believe a diversion of the Upfield line will reduce traffic on Sydney road with people taking the underground train instead of taking a tram in a narrow, congested road.
Also, the University of New South Wales is not getting any heavy rail, only light rail, in spite of current passenger demand.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner


Very different, the Melbourne Metro will be part of our existing suburban railway network, presumably with the same loading gauge as the City Loop. The Sydney metro will be a separate line not interoperable with their existing suburban network, itself closer to world class that ours. They only have a few level crossings, all on the least busy railways and a lot more sections with more than one track in each direction.
I know the Swanston street corridor has multiple tram routes that terminate there but the University is busy enough the be served by heavy rail.


How do you upgrade Route 19 to a "better" status? Syndey road is quite narrow and heavily trafficked, and I believe a diversion of the Upfield line will reduce traffic on Sydney road with people taking the underground train instead of taking a tram in a narrow, congested road.
Also, the University of New South Wales is not getting any heavy rail, only light rail, in spite of current passenger demand.
Myrtone
I think the Airport line or the electrified Melton line counts as a new line that will eventually be done with Melbourne Metro by 2026, I know they're not funded but these two are not rejected by any means by the current Government. Level crossings can be removed by changing the level of the road and rail like every single grade separation project does. Yes you can divert the rail to remove crossing but if that is the objective it is quite expensive. If the University already has efficient trams and buses connections to serve the north and south of the University why spend billions on a tunnel when millions can be spent to make the route 19 tram have more capacity and decrease delays.

To upgrade the route 19 will require political will and funding but much cheaper than any current heavy rail upgrades going on. These include removing all parking off Sydney Road and make it single lane both ways, this will be very contraversial but who cares it will remove the delays there. Remove tram stops that are too close to each other and merge them into super tram stop that are accessible. Moving more longer trams of the route 19 (not E-Class, but more E-Class frees up other longer trams onto route 19). Make all the trams so they connect with the trains (I know it's tricky but can be done with some timetabling changes).
Also a sweet bonus, make the Upfield line run more frequent trains (duplication may be needed at the northern end).

And if Sydney will not push a rail tunnel to the University, just shows Melbourne is better than Sydney Smile. Seriously though Sydney should of put the Station in the University instead that's only because serves a busy line and has much less connection than Melbourne. I'm not saying the Upfield tunnel will never be a good project, but at the moment it doesn't look viable compared with projects that allow separating busy branches of rail lines and how the current connections from the north should be improved before making the decision of the rail tunnel.  

Regards James Wink
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
I think the Airport line or the electrified Melton line counts as a new line that will eventually be done with Melbourne Metro by 2026, I know they're not funded but these two are not rejected by any means by the current Government. Level crossings can be removed by changing the level of the road and rail like every single grade separation project does. Yes you can divert the rail to remove crossing but if that is the objective it is quite expensive. If the University already has efficient trams and buses connections to serve the north and south of the University why spend billions on a tunnel when millions can be spent to make the route 19 tram have more capacity and decrease delays.
"James974"

But those new lines will still be part of our existing suburban network. In built up areas, changing the level of a railway is often the only way to grade separate a level crossing. Sometimes diverting a railway has other benefits such as serving a busy place not previously served by heavy rail.

To upgrade the route 19 will require political will and funding but much cheaper than any current heavy rail upgrades going on. These include removing all parking off Sydney Road and make it single lane both ways, this will be very contraversial but who cares it will remove the delays there. Remove tram stops that are too close to each other and merge them into super tram stop that are accessible. Moving more longer trams of the route 19 (not E-Class, but more E-Class frees up other longer trams onto route 19). Make all the trams so they connect with the trains (I know it's tricky but can be done with some timetabling changes).
Also a sweet bonus, make the Upfield line run more frequent trains (duplication may be needed at the northern end).
"James974"

The problem here is the loss of parking, though many here might think this is a good thing, but lots of parking will be gone. Then again, we have way too much street parking in too many places.

And if Sydney will not push a rail tunnel to the University, just shows Melbourne is better than Sydney Smile. Seriously though Sydney should of put the Station in the University instead that's only because serves a busy line and has much less connection than Melbourne. I'm not saying the Upfield tunnel will never be a good project, but at the moment it doesn't look viable compared with projects that allow separating busy branches of rail lines and how the current connections from the north should be improved before making the decision of the rail tunnel.
"James974"

1. That alone doesn't show that Melbourne is better than Sydney. But Sydney suburban is being compromised by a privatised metro fantasy.
2. It has been pointed out to me that they are serving it with light rail instead of heavy rail. I'm not saying when the Upfield tunnel project will look viable. Many other projects might well be more important but consider this; More people in the Syndey road corridor travel to the Melbourne University precinct than to Flemington bridge or Macauley but the railway parallel to Sydney road serves the latter instead of the University, which in turn is only served by street transit. This is all back-to-front.

It's regrettable that the Melbourne suburban didn't get designed by a counterpart to Sydney's John Bradfield. It's also regrettable that we rationalised the Jolimont railyards because they supported extra trains in the peak hour direction each peak period, thus making full use of triple track that we have.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Myrtone, most of your reasons for pushing this proposal are fair enough. The 1 thing you clearly have not considered is the cost-benefit ratio.

Now I will admit I am not equipped to give a full analysis, but I can guarantee if a full on investigation was undertaken to test the viability of such a project, the results would suggest that such a project as you are proposing would cost far too much for not enough benefit. This is THE reason this won't happen.

Before you suggest a full study should be done, no it shouldn't, because a study of this type usually costs about 2 -3 million and the results would be fairly obvious, that it is not viable. So even a study into your proposal would be a waste of money.

There are so many VIABLE public transport projects that SHOULD happen and either won't happen soon enough, or won't happen at all. Each one of them will happen before anything like this should even be thought about.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
How do you know what the results of a study would be if you don't do it?!?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Because your proposal don't pass the common sense test. Upfield Line has patronage rivalling the williamstown and alamein line, and diverting it via Parkville (which is getting a heavy rail connection as part of the Metro Tunnel) will not increase its patronage enough for the ~$5B cost. Because where would the tunnel join the network at the other end? South Morang? Doncaster? Sandringham? Baxter? The cost of joining that end of the tunnel would also need to be considered. And terminating in the city is not an option, We need to move away from services which go to the city and turn around and go back out, need to build more end to end services, with driver bases at the end of the line.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The only problem with common sense is that for some people it isn't nearly common enough.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Upfield rail tunnel is a project like the ---- ---- ----, it makes sense when you look at a map but when you put it under the cost vs benefit test it will not be so great. It is only worth considering after duplication, removing the level crossings, upgrading the route 19 tram, Upfield line is extended to Wallan and trains are packed to the brim. As I see it now it doesn't make such sense, many corridors worth of Heavy Rail connection such as Melton rail, Airport rail, maybe a Branch to Monash precinct, Metro 2 project, extend Werribee line to Wyndham line, removing more level crossings, RRL east project, Clyde extension and Cranbourne duplication. As well as this encourage the state government to upgrade more trams to light rail status and make buses great again. Melbourne University connections to the northern suburbs do so well that it attracts University students to live there, I don't see many complaining other than the fact that trams are quite full. That's why you should promote a route 19 tram upgrade instead of a rail tunnel since this is what needs to happen first.

Anyone that figures what ---- ---- ---- can get bonus points> Smile
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
There are definitely plenty of rail projects that should definitely be given a higher priority than an Upfield tunnel such as the Airport railway. Indeed it will be worth considering if the line is duplicated, with every level crossing north of Gowrie, be it with a road or footpath, either closed or grade separated, with an extension to Wallan.
Undergrounding the Upfield line will:

*Remove every level crossing south of Batman, level crossings north of Batman would either be closed or the roads or footpaths involved being raised or lowered.
*Free up lots of land in Coburg, Moreland and Brunswick.
*Allow a westward extension of the Moreland road tramline.
*Make way for a diversion of the Royal Park tramline away from a steeply graded alignment that crosses Elliot Avenue and along the section of railway alignment between Poplar road, Royal Park and Macaulay road, Macauley, removing the level crossing between this tramline and Elliot Avenue and crossing above tram routes 57 and 59.
*Improve mass transit along the Sydney road corridor even without upgrading tram route 19, though tram stops there, and all others are going to need platfroms anyway.

So there, five benefits. No one of these benefits outweighs the cost in isolation, but maybe a big list like this would.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Those benefits you have mentioned are mostly valid, with the exception of the ability of extending Moreland Rd trams Westward. When Moreland Rd is grade seperated that will enable this posibility without the need to sink the entire line into a tunnel.

With all of the benefits you have mentioned, you still don't go anywhere near providing the required benefit to get near making a project such as this viable.

Again, with everything taken into count, there is no way this project can be considered viable.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

There are definitely plenty of rail projects that should definitely be given a higher priority than an Upfield tunnel such as the Airport railway. Indeed it will be worth considering if the line is duplicated, with every level crossing north of Gowrie, be it with a road or footpath, either closed or grade separated, with an extension to Wallan.
Undergrounding the Upfield line will:

*Remove every level crossing south of Batman, level crossings north of Batman would either be closed or the roads or footpaths involved being raised or lowered.
*Free up lots of land in Coburg, Moreland and Brunswick.
*Allow a westward extension of the Moreland road tramline.
*Make way for a diversion of the Royal Park tramline away from a steeply graded alignment that crosses Elliot Avenue and along the section of railway alignment between Poplar road, Royal Park and Macaulay road, Macauley, removing the level crossing between this tramline and Elliot Avenue and crossing above tram routes 57 and 59.
*Improve mass transit along the Sydney road corridor even without upgrading tram route 19, though tram stops there, and all others are going to need platfroms anyway.

So there, five benefits. No one of these benefits outweighs the cost in isolation, but maybe a big list like this would.
Myrtone
Let me shut down these benefits.
*awfully expensive to remove only a handful of level crossings for a cost of billions. There are much more level crossings in the Northern section
*Most of the land that freed up is not even usable, some of it lies in a park and the rest is under the city link
*There is basically no restrictions places on the extension of the Moreland tram apart from one level crossing and funding
*You want to change the tram to use the rail corridor are you out of your mind, that's a waste of money
*You don't need a build a 5 billion plus rail tunnel to upgrade the tram route 19 that is not a benefit it is a totally seperate project

Now quit making your pet project viable because reality it is too expensive and smaller scale upgrades will provide the same benefits and don't require billions of taxpayers money wasted. Seriously you only support Airport railway above this project. Melton Electrification needs to happen now, and the Clyde extension/Cranbourne duplication is much better value for money and provides people without any frequent transport options. Also Monash students have to take buses yet the Upfield students have tram, bus and even cycling options open to them. Monash Uni link is even above priority than this. Also you don't seem eager to seperate our rail branches which is totally nesserary like metro2 project. Also the Wyndham Vale extension is needed for interchange and relieve pressure on the Geelong line which suffers overcrowding via these new stations. Even Duplication projects on the Lilydale and Altona and Hurstbridge lines are more important so there are less single track restraining the frequent trains along the route. Even the tunnel to Chadstone shopping centre from the Alamein line is better than this project since Chadstone shopping centre is lacking any frequent connections into the city.

I may not know what will happen in the future whether the Upfield serves the Wallan growth precinct, this is the time when the Upfield line tunnel could even be considered for a rail study. But still unlikely to happen anytime soon or may not happen at all.

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