The End of the Internal Combustion Engine is Nigh

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by dthead on 17 Feb 2020 23:08
  Clarke Hudswell Junior Train Controller

I bought ‘Wheels’ magazine today, don’t buy it often at all now. I was interested in their Car of the Year awards. Of the 31 cars selected by Wheels to contest CotY, 3 were all-electric and there were quite a few more that were hybrids. The winner was the Mercedes EQC (all electric). The runner up was the Tesla 3 series. And this was a mag aimed at the petrol-heads!


The fastest car there (acceleration, top speeds are irrelevant nowadays) was the Porsche 911 Carrera for $264k, 0-100 in 3.4 sec. The second fastest was a sedan, a $99k Tesla 3 Performance at 3.5 sec. The cheap Tesla ($68k) takes a whole 5.3 secs. Wheels says about the Tesla “No question efficiency was on its side. Both…consumed around 25 kWh/100km which... would translate in energy consumption terms to using just 2.5 L/100km.” So, an electric sedan is as fast as a Porsche sports car while using much less energy than the smallest, least powerful petrol car available.


In the market price guide up the back, I had a look at prices, the only model that has both petrol and electric versions of the same car is the Hyundai Kona. The Elite with 130 kW petrol power is $33,500. The Elite with 150 kW electric power is $59,990. Expensive, but not the 3 or 4 times the price someone said above. There are 3 electric cars available under $50k, with more coming this year.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I bought ‘Wheels’ magazine today, don’t buy it often at all now. I was interested in their Car of the Year awards. Of the 31 cars selected by Wheels to contest CotY, 3 were all-electric and there were quite a few more that were hybrids. The winner was the Mercedes EQC (all electric). The runner up was the Tesla 3 series. And this was a mag aimed at the petrol-heads!


The fastest car there (acceleration, top speeds are irrelevant nowadays) was the Porsche 911 Carrera for $264k, 0-100 in 3.4 sec. The second fastest was a sedan, a $99k Tesla 3 Performance at 3.5 sec. The cheap Tesla ($68k) takes a whole 5.3 secs. Wheels says about the Tesla “No question efficiency was on its side. Both…consumed around 25 kWh/100km which... would translate in energy consumption terms to using just 2.5 L/100km.” So, an electric sedan is as fast as a Porsche sports car while using much less energy than the smallest, least powerful petrol car available.


In the market price guide up the back, I had a look at prices, the only model that has both petrol and electric versions of the same car is the Hyundai Kona. The Elite with 130 kW petrol power is $33,500. The Elite with 150 kW electric power is $59,990. Expensive, but not the 3 or 4 times the price someone said above. There are 3 electric cars available under $50k, with more coming this year.
Clarke Hudswell
Re: Elite, That's still a very big difference in price for the Elite and a very hard line for most. Considering the engine and box is probably $5-10k removed and replaced with a basic electric drive train which costs buggerall but for arguments sake lets say cost of the petrol engine and box system. That means the battery is worth over $25k.

Re: Model 3 price, even Musk himself commented that the Model 3 in Australia is simply too expensive. US$40k is A$60k, so there is another $8k of shipping and dealing and tax being added to the US retail price.

The industry is predicting break even with petrol on purchase by as early 2023, not bad considering it was only 2 years ago reported as +2030. So in 3 years the likes of Tesla and Hyundai have alot of work to do for which Musk has acknowledged and recently instructed his team to focus on reducing the battery cost.

Re: Petrol head, I think the definition of this is changing and will continue to change. Could you imagine kids born today, driving around 2037-38, likely 8 years after prediction of 50:50 of new sales as EV (assume true for the moment) being "petrol heads" in a world focused on CO2 reduction and climate change likely more so than today? Even if not, I don't see the same level of interest in cars by today's youth as  when I was growing up. Modern car engines and gear boxes are also no longer the simple mechanical machines of the past. Just look in the car shops, its about wax and polish etc more than engine gaskets. Look at the NRMA, taking the lead for installing EV charging stations.

The next decade is certainly going to be one of change in the car industry.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Another clean up, Mostly people have been good, and when people talk about me, I do note it.  Took my time before  doign this clean.

Ok folk stay on the topic, not what othere try to divert the discussion to.

thanks !
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
@dthead Why move to "Other Transport"? Railway locomotives use ICEs.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
the thread  is primarily road traffic, not electric locos etc.

David
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Interesting to see a mob in Wollongong wanting to start making Hydrogen powered tractors and even passenger vehicles from 2025:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-15/hydrogen-car-manufacturer-in-illawarra/12355138
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Honda are phasing out all mainstream petrol and diesel cars from the UK market by 2022.  It's all happening rather quickly.

https://thedriven.io/2020/10/21/honda-to-phase-out-diesel-petrol-cars-in-uk-in-favour-of-evs-by-2022/
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Interesting to see a mob in Wollongong wanting to start making Hydrogen powered tractors and even passenger vehicles from 2025:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-15/hydrogen-car-manufacturer-in-illawarra/12355138
Carnot
I can see Hydrogen being used for large equipment, but I still struggle with it in cars because most of the time it's just an electric car with extra steps.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Interesting to see a mob in Wollongong wanting to start making Hydrogen powered tractors and even passenger vehicles from 2025:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-15/hydrogen-car-manufacturer-in-illawarra/12355138
Carnot
I can see Hydrogen being used for large equipment, but I still struggle with it in cars because most of the time it's just an electric car with extra steps.
"speedemon08"


Agree.  H2 in small vehicles doesn't really make sense.  Although one thing that does irk me about EVs is how car manufacturers (particularly American companies) "greenwash" their resource-hungry new Bro-Dozers as somehow environmentally friendly.

i.e. The new 1000 HP Hummer:
https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev

That's the same power as a T-class Diesel/Electric locomotive, but in an offroad ute!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Honda are phasing out all mainstream petrol and diesel cars from the UK market by 2022.  It's all happening rather quickly.

https://thedriven.io/2020/10/21/honda-to-phase-out-diesel-petrol-cars-in-uk-in-favour-of-evs-by-2022/
Carnot
Interesting although the title is  not correct

Diesel has actually gone, not going. Hybrid will replace petrol.

Still the change is accelerating. The last few years its been mostly talk and rumor, especially for EV deprived Ozzies. But OS and in the design offices of car manufacturers, things are happening very fast, we just have the usual development and industrialisation lag of the car industry, typically 5-8 years or so.

I think $hit won't start getting real for many people until 2023-24 or so when many of their beloved ICE only powered models start to disappear and not be replaced. Certainly diesel is a dead man walking out side the real 4x4's, but only some. While the dual cab market seems to be almost ignorant of the growing EV tide (until 2025 when most will have this option), GM is bringing back the Hummer in EV only as a higher end luxury very large 4x4.

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