Route 30 replaced by route 12

  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Statement from Ben Caroll

On the tram network, two new shuttle routes will run along Collins St – one during weekday peak periods along St George’s Road, Brunswick Street and Collins Street using large E Class trams, and the second for up to 19 hours each day between Victoria Harbour and St Vincent’s Plaza via Collins St.

To reduce congestion on Collins Street, Route 30 will be replaced with the Route 12 which will be diverted to La Trobe Street, providing alternative travel options within the CBD and additional capacity on La Trobe Street.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Would have thought Bourke Street would need more services than Collins Street

The congested tram route along Collins Street will get desperately needed relief, with the addition of new shuttle routes.

E-Class trams will run from Collins Street in the city to St George's Road in Preston, via Brunswick Street in Fitzroy, once during the weekday peak periods.

A second tram shuttle from Victoria Harbour in the Docklands to St Vincent's Plaza in East Melbourne via Collins Street will run services all day, from 6am to midnight from Monday to Thursday and until 1am on Friday and Saturday Route 30, which runs from East Melbourne and the Docklands via La Trobe Street, will now be replaced with Route 12, to boost capacity on La Trobe Street.

Could have split the service between Bourke and Collins?
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

With little cost route 30 and route 78 should be joined

Possibly route 12 will become permanent La Trobe Street route
  route14 Chief Commissioner

It would be good if they just kept route 31 and 95.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

@route 14
What was the benefit of route 31 and 95 were they inter peak or reduced type of service?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

They were both lunch-time shuttles.  At some stage Yarra Trams ran a lot of Collins St. shuttles that didn't appear on the public timetable for almost the entire inter-peak period which could be used as block cars whenever situations necessitated.  It was actually my suggestion that was passed on to the company by a driver friend of mine when the management sought suggestions from drivers to improve services.  Most if not all of them ran to East Melbourne to alleviate the congestion at Brunswick St. siding, as route 43.  Unfortunately when it got to the 2010's Yarra Trams became so unfriendly to "routes that only operate for part of the day", claiming they caused public confusion.  Short workings and depot runs that were allocated route numbers were replaced with letter suffices, route 42 was renamed 109A, special event route 121, 125 and 129 became 70A and 75A respectively.  Apart from those, all other peak service routes, be it commuting peak or lunch peak, ceased operation.  By not running services because of public confusion, Yarra Trams are not putting their priorities right.  Those who do understand the system are their most valued customers, who know how to, and do patronize the network while keeping the system running smoothly.  Those with difficulty comprehending route numbers are welcome to endeavour to understand it, or remain at stops for trams showing route numbers that they're used to seeing.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Excellent information thank you, but did you mean your suggestion was 30 & 78? Sorry if I've miss understood
  route14 Chief Commissioner

No, about provision of Collins and Bourke St shuttles.  (The change announced this time is only about Collins St.)
  route14 Chief Commissioner

No, about provision of Collins and Bourke St shuttles.  (The change announced this time is only about Collins St.)
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

I see thanks for clearing that up
  route14 Chief Commissioner

There is no quote button on my mobile version so sorry for the confusion.  (There is also no delete button in case my posts accidentally get submitted multiple times)
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

My mobile as well

Do yo think route 30 and route 78 would be feasible?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Sure if they are enthusiastic about running the network.  You would need a triangular junction at North Richmond, the rest of tracks already exist.  It would be ideally shared between Glenhuntly and Southbank.  One round-trip would be enough to fill one half-day portion of a driver's shift so as to minimize drivers' boredom of running City shuttles for 8 round-trips in one portion.  The only problem is the congestion along Chapel and Church Streets.  On a Friday night route 78 can be one hour late.  This will have a flow-on effect into the City section.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Would small extensions to the south east railway stations be more effective
  route14 Chief Commissioner

You mean Elsternwick?  When route 78 was operated by Glenhuntly Depot the driver relief runs all take passengers past it.  If the combined route 30 and 78 were to be shared between Glenhuntly and Southbank half of the services will continue to do so.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
What was the reasoning for taking 78 away from Glenhuntly and sending it to Kew instead?

Was it to free up depot space at Glenhuntly in preperation for a larger number of B class trams at that depot?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

According to Wikimili: "Until 30 April 2017 Route 78 was operated from Glenhuntly Depot when it was transferred back to Kew tram depot to allow more B2 class trams to be operated from here."

    Unfortunately passengers could no longer get a lift to Elsternwick Station in a depot car.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

From Yarra Trams' website both shuttles will show route 11A, which just further reveals the disadvantage of letter suffices.  The two versions of trip coverage could be distinctly verified with route 31 and 9.  Sure there is the destination indicator but you would need to focus on it for longer to verify it.  If you are the only intending passenger at a stop you usually only have a few seconds to make a decision to signal the driver to stop.  What's more, both locations have undergone name changes, from City-Brunswick St. to St Vincent Plaza and from Thornbury to New Preston Depot, respectively.  Route numbers will serve to define them regardless of name change.  I would like to reiterate that passengers who don't read will continue not doing so regardless of what you show, so special working route numbers don't contribute to the confusion, as claimed by Yarra Trams.  In fact, letter suffices contribute more to it.
    Another typical example of confusion CAUSED BY letter suffices that come in to mind is route 57.  Originally you had route 54 for short shunting at Maribyrnong River, route 56 for City to Racecourse or Showground via Haymarket, and route 58 for City to Racecourse or Showground via North Melbourne (This route number is now taken by the West Coburg to Toorak service, but surely another route number can be found in the two-digit range for this version of special event working), and now it's all 57A.  It will also mislead passengers into thinking that the tram operates via North Melbourne when it's actually running via Haymarket, exposing drivers to higher stress level of customer service and potential abuse from unruly passengers.
    Assigning different route numbers to peak service routes is a common practice world-wide on tram, trolley bus and bus networks.  Assigning different route numbers for partial trips is also common with tram networks especially those with British background, including Shanghai in the Concession days (1845 to 1941).
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Why not all route numbers be derived from the city streets that trams leave from ie

Swanston Street
2 -18 evens normal service
1-19 odds peak and short working

Elizabeth & William Streets
20s evens normal service
20s odds peak and short workings

Flinders Street
30s evens normal service
30s odds peak and short workings

Collins Street
40s evens normal service
40s odds peak and short workings

Bourke Street
50s evens normal services
50s odds peak and short workings

La Trobe Street
60s evens normal services
60s odds peak and short workings

And cross suburban
80s evens north south
80s odds are East west

Just a thought
  route14 Chief Commissioner

It would be a nice plan if it was introduced when the system was built from scratch, but you have to deal with "inertia of thinking" if I may coin the word.  The use of special working route numbers is the positive use of the said inertia for those who understand the system, they'll know straight away what this tram is doing.  It is also the correct use of the inertia for those who don't understand it, by alerting them that this tram is different from the usual ones that they regularly use.  The use of letter suffices would be the opposite.  The former group of customers: OK, this is something+A, so I have to spend one more second reading its actual destination (A more troubled experience for the customer).  For the latter group of customers: It's route 11A, so it should be similar to route 11.  I'm going to Bell St. on this.  Hey, why are you kicking me out at St Vincent Plz?  (Increased stress on drivers)
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Old dogs new tricks

With proper colour coding and the right information at each stop, people old and new would / should comprehend something simple

As you wrote previously Yarra trams are not quite interested in really running a tram system Like metro and vline
It seems all to much to make things that should be understandable and easy to use

Even though turn up and go appears to be the goal
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The residents of South Melbourne and St Kilda won’t be impressed. It will add significant time to their journeys. If for instance you currently catch a Route 12 tram from the Exhibition Street stop you will now have to walk 3 blocks up Exhibition Street to La Trobe Street, only to effectively travel back on the tram to Collins Street (the Spencer Street section from La Trobe to Collins Street). What will happen in practice is that most passengers will interchange at Collins & Spencer Streets, filling up the Collins Street shuttles that replace the Route 12 trams. Similar happens at the moment on Route 58, the (temporary?) amalgamation of Routes 8 & 55. Most passengers from Toorak (the old Route 8 via Swanston Street) get off at Domain and catch a St Kilda Road tram. Route 12 is primarily to service the above areas, not form a shuttle service for La Trobe Street.

Another minor aspect of changes is there will no longer be a connection from St Vincents Plaza and La Trobe Street through to the top end of Docklands – Central Pier & New Quay. You will have to interchange at either Spencer & La Trobe Streets or Collins Street & Harbour Esplanade.

Routes 12 & 30 should be left as is. The proposed peak-hour Victoria Dock – Preston (Route 11A?) trams should run from Docklands - Waterfront City or Central Pier via La Trobe Street (Route 14) instead. Some Collins Street shuttles (Route 9 or 10 Victoria Dock – St Vincents Plaza) could be added between inter-peak and, perhaps, early evening and weekend hours. Consideration might be given to moving the St Vincents Plaza siding from the north side to between the Up and Down tracks, a la the Arts Centre, albeit with gentler curves.

As discussed above, using ‘A’ for a regular route is rather confusing.  ‘A’ should be used for temporary alterations, eg Route 96A when it runs via La Trobe Street. There are plenty of vacant route numbers with historical association that could be used. East Malvern Routes 3 and 3A are confusing enough. What happens if Route 3A gets altered temporarily? Since it is now the only 3-digit number, Route 109 should be renumbered either back to 42, or 44 (since it’s a bit longer at the eastern end). Shouldn’t cause too much confusion at the 'Borough' end.

It would be interesting to find out how much of a net gain this is, eg replacing a 19-hour-a-day 7-days-a-week Route 30 service with a vaguely worded ‘up to 19 hours each day’ Collins Street shuttle. It's hard to imagine a shuttle running up and down Collins Street at 10pm on a cold winter’s Monday night when there are Route 11, 48 & 109s also running. It seems more likely to be a Mon to Fri inter-peak service.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

In fact, there were more special route numbers in the Metcard days that were programmed into the TDKP, for passenger statistic reasons.  They can also be used publicly, such as route 142 for route 109 diverted via LaTrobe St., route 186 for route 86 diverted via LaTrobe St., and route 196 for route 96 diverted via LaTrobe St.  When that happens you'll know straight away what's happening, instead of the driver stopping at Victoria Pde. and make the announcement, then one bunch of people rushing off the tram and another bunch rushing to the driver to seek advice for alternative travel options.  If it was showing, say, 96A, who knows what's happening.  Via LaTrobe St.?  Terminating at North Fitzroy (former route 97)?  Terminating at Gertrude St. (former route 95)?  Terminating at Spencer St. (will have to be King St. due to relocation of platform, formerly assigned route 102)?  Diverted via route 12 (formerly assigned route 104)?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The Collins Street shuttle should run between the Colonial Tramcar Restaurant siding (Clarendon & Whiteman Streets) and St Vincents Plaza. Modifying the track layout at the siding might be a bit tricky.  A lot of people use Collins Street’s Route 12 & 109 trams to get to and from the Casino. (Re-routing Route 12 will put more pressure on Route 109.) If the restaurant returns (hopefully) it should be able to be accommodated, as there’s only about 3 departures and 3 arrivals a day.

PS: Or reverse at Southbank depot.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

If a tram route in the numbering system based on city streets that I suggested earlier
then for argument sake
route 96 becomes route 66 via Bourke Street to East Brunswick then if that tram was diverted to/from La Trobe Street it would be a route 76
If same route was to be diverted to Collins Street it would change to 56

Does this make sense?
Wondering if it's simple enough?

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