Andrews Government rolls back partial order for 10 extra E-class trams

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 08 Dec 2020 14:37
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well this is not great and I suppose highlights some of the other areas of the network which will need further investment to allow bigger trams of the E Class size.  Those substations must be 40 years old or longer?

Andrews Government rolls back partial order for 10 extra E-class trams

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  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Hey @route14 may be this is more to do with budget cuts than electricity?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Or perhaps a bit of both.  I wonder what the variations will be.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I was thinking perhaps they are below expectation?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

In terms of operating performance over special track components as I have noted, definitely.  However as others have mentioned, it would be illegal to go back to the Comeng trams' design.  Again, I wonder what the solution will be.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
So now we are going to pay for trams that are not going to be delivered. Just as well there is no budget problems in Victoria.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

If it WAS for the operation performance related problems, they could have identified them when just 10 trams were delivered, not 90.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

Seems the problem is they don't want to pay for the infrastructure upgrades (new substations) needed for the E class trams. But the problem isn't 'traction' making the trams go, the problem is the power drawn by airconditioning.
Really the suggestion that 'onboard energy storage' would solve this issue (at least in part) is fanciful.

If you still need a 30m tram (and the numbers don't change much for a smaller 20m tram), adding 'onboard energy storage' is just going to add weight, which overall, will INCREASE power consumption. You might be able to shave a peak off here or there, but extra weight == extra power. And with a network as big as Melbourne's, regenerative braking energy would nearly always be used by another tram in the same electrical zone, so why carry extra weight in batteries/supercaps around to store the recovered power ON the tram?


I think the snake-oil salesmen have been in the ear of PTV and politicians again.

The only thing that would make a significant dent in tram power consumption would be to drop airconditioning, but I can't see that going down too well with the public...
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Traction also takes up a lot of power, 510 kW total, 50 kW higher than C1 class.
    A C2 class totals 516 kW in traction power.  So why don't they have power trouble?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Nothing is ever quite what it seems or what you are misled to believe by politicians and or government.
Thankfully they got the track gauge more or less right at least.Smile
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There are only 5 x C2.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

What's a partial order?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I wonder the same.  Didn't they just announce an extended order of another 100?
    On a related note, when Yarra Trams announced the extended order of another 100 trams on their Linkedin, I commented about their disadvantages (which I posted on the forum earlier).  My comment went missing.  Did they actually send it to the government but didn't want them known via Linkedin?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The 2020 Budget was for 100 Next Generation Trams ($1.5 billion). The 2019 Budget allocated funds for the development of NGTs (F-class?), which means, if the trams are not be in service until 2025, they will have taken 6 years to develop. It looks like nothing has been done for the last 18 months. Since the NGTs will replace A & Z-class trams, it would seem they’ll basically just be smaller trams than the E-class, with consequential power savings.

It’s hard to keep up with exactly what has been ordered as some orders don’t appear in one or other budgets. Meeting DDA compliance by 2032 seems doubtful, at best.
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

The 2020 Budget was for 100 Next Generation Trams ($1.5 billion). The 2019 Budget allocated funds for the development of NGTs (F-class?), which means, if the trams are not be in service until 2025, they will have taken 6 years to develop. It looks like nothing has been done for the last 18 months. Since the NGTs will replace A & Z-class trams, it would seem they’ll basically just be smaller trams than the E-class, with consequential power savings.

It’s hard to keep up with exactly what has been ordered as some orders don’t appear in one or other budgets. Meeting DDA compliance by 2032 seems doubtful, at best.
kitchgp

We still have around 300 high floor trams in service so production of new trams would have to double to 20-25 per year from now until 2032 to meet that deadline. As you say it seems highly unlikely.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The 2020 Budget was for 100 Next Generation Trams ($1.5 billion). The 2019 Budget allocated funds for the development of NGTs (F-class?), which means, if the trams are not be in service until 2025, they will have taken 6 years to develop. It looks like nothing has been done for the last 18 months. Since the NGTs will replace A & Z-class trams, it would seem they’ll basically just be smaller trams than the E-class, with consequential power savings.

It’s hard to keep up with exactly what has been ordered as some orders don’t appear in one or other budgets. Meeting DDA compliance by 2032 seems doubtful, at best.

We still have around 300 high floor trams in service so production of new trams would have to double to 20-25 per year from now until 2032 to meet that deadline. As you say it seems highly unlikely.
mike49
They could be replacing two small trams with one big tram...
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
The 2020 Budget was for 100 Next Generation Trams ($1.5 billion). The 2019 Budget allocated funds for the development of NGTs (F-class?), which means, if the trams are not be in service until 2025, they will have taken 6 years to develop. It looks like nothing has been done for the last 18 months. Since the NGTs will replace A & Z-class trams, it would seem they’ll basically just be smaller trams than the E-class, with consequential power savings.

It’s hard to keep up with exactly what has been ordered as some orders don’t appear in one or other budgets. Meeting DDA compliance by 2032 seems doubtful, at best.

We still have around 300 high floor trams in service so production of new trams would have to double to 20-25 per year from now until 2032 to meet that deadline. As you say it seems highly unlikely.
They could be replacing two small trams with one big tram...
railblogger
...At the cost of service levels. Highly unlikely, as someone else has already commented.

Neil

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