Investigation underway after heritage railway removed at Crookwell

 
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Oh well its gone now, the Government won't force him to rebuild it.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If you were the farm owner and a former ROW went ...

It's not a former right of way.
It's not even a right of way (it's publicly owned freehold title).
... and this is the key point ...
the farmer is not the owner.  (And never was).
djf01
One more time

I said the use of the land was abandoned, not the ownership of the land. Who said anything about stealing the land?

Again, one more time, I'm referring to ROW that runs through farms owned either side by same period and in close proximity to houses on farm properties. Not some generalistic view for which you are applying.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And here we have it, a bloke who's just helping himself to public land, and would probably raise objections to it becoming a railtrail because if security risks. Probably thinks all townies are a bunch of thieves or that before you know it half the residents of Supermax will be dropping by on their Malvern Stars to say hello.
billybaxter
Same rules apply to this as apply to local councils tarring over LX or removing and grading roads at LX.

If the railway is to be reopened, you have to pay for the conversion back to usable condition. The track was never going to be usable condition for a railway, however the embankment would be required and if the track machine operators are given access and a lease then he should be taken to court to repair the embankment. Track materials he has indicated are still there to be collected and reused for track machine.

The issue is now for most of these lines in NSW closed during the mid 70's and probably little use in years prior for the born and raised farmers on their properties, few will have living memory's of the railway ever in operation. By law they have to provide a fence to the railway, not the railway, yet they are expected to maintain two fences 10-20m apart for the length the  line runs through your property and then maintain the ROW for weed and pest control for the ROW for which the state has effectively abandoned for half a century. So do we blame them for some of their actions and again if this was your farm, what would you do?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
In 99% of cases, farmers objections to a RT are bogus. But in likely 99% of cases farmers reclaiming the ROW on lines abandoned before colour TV was standard that runs through the middle of the their property is likely valid and reasonable. However, its still public land and they do so with some potential legal consequences for which few will ever need to be worried about as of the 3000 km of abandoned railways in NSW, less than 1% will ever see a train/track machine again. Conversion to RT is however less of an issue as the farmer clearing the ROW of infrastructure and in some cases embankment will likely reduce the cost to convert the line to RT.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


I said the use of the land was abandoned, not the ownership of the land.
RTT_Rules

I quoted exactly what you said Shane.  It might not be what you meant, but you used the language that reflects the way this guy obviously thinks about it.  I am paraphrasing here:  
"The former railway route that runs through my farm."

The implicit assumption the railway only ever had temporary operated rights through the farm via his largess (since revoked), not the other way around.

Who said anything about stealing the land?
RTT_Rules

I did.  F***ing squatters.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

I said the use of the land was abandoned, not the ownership of the land.
I quoted exactly what you said Shane.  It might not be what you meant, but you used the language that reflects the way this guy obviously thinks about it.  I am paraphrasing here:  
"The former railway route that runs through my farm."

The implicit assumption the railway only ever had temporary operated rights through the farm via his largess (since revoked), not the other way around.

Who said anything about stealing the land?

I did.  F***ing squatters.
djf01
So your phrasing to suit your own narrative and I never implied anything, only your assumption.

One more time,
I saying again, the ROW runs through your farm. The farm you likely inherited and grew up on and never seen a train movement in your life or memory.

Once again,
- By law you have to fence both sides for your own animal security.
- The owner of the ROW stopping any weed and pest control decades ago
- There is ZERO chance of the line ever being used for commercial rail and there has no serious talk of use for HR. or just the usual every few years a few people say they want to run trains.

What would you do?

Now remember before you answer, there is what you might do if the ROW was 1-2km away from your house at the back end of your farm and there is what would you do if the line ran near your front or back door?

I'm more referring to the actions for some of the farmers on the Tumba' line, not the recent actions on the Crockwell line as stated in the OP, although if he didn't know of any intention to use it for track vehicles, it would be pretty much in the same boat.

If the ROW wasn't listed as Crown Land, rather private. Then in some states I believe (open to correction), that under common law the ROW would have been ceded to the adjacent land owners years ago as for all intensive purposes it has been abandoned for decades if the adjacent land owners can prove they are maintaining it.
  303gunner Junior Train Controller


Now remember before you answer, there is what you might do if the ROW was 1-2km away from your house at the back end of your farm and there is what would you do if the line ran near your front or back door?

I'm more referring to the actions for some of the farmers on the Tumba' line, not the recent actions on the Crockwell line as stated in the OP, although if he didn't know of any intention to use it for track vehicles, it would be pretty much in the same boat.

If the ROW wasn't listed as Crown Land, rather private. Then in some states I believe (open to correction), that under common law the ROW would have been ceded to the adjacent land owners years ago as for all intensive purposes it has been abandoned for decades if the adjacent land owners can prove they are maintaining it.

RTT_Rules
There is no suggestion by the Farmer that he has done this because the line is near his front or back door. He has done it to take possession and prevent any possible rail or RT use of the land.

He is well aware of the Track Vehicles using the line, they have been doing so for over 20 years and are well known in the district and to ONSRR, operating under full Accreditation. It's just that now they have applied to LEASE the line and take custodianship of it's upkeep that he acts.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9zjJC1KKXo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdVarwAH-8g

The land is a separate Land Title zoned as Railway Purposes. It is not a Right of Way or Easement over his land. Elsewhere along the branch, other farmers whose property adjoins the line HAVE fenced the boundary. If they can do it, why can't he?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

So your phrasing to suit your own narrative and I never implied anything, only your assumption.
RTT_Rules
Yes, I deliberately paraphrased in my own words, because you took offence to my making the same point with your exact words!  

Yes, your language did (and still does) imply the rail corridor is a right of way through land owned by a farmer.
It is not.  

Freehold is a permanent right of vacant possession.  A right of way mean someone else (such as a neighbour owning an islanded piece of land) has the right to traverse your property in set circumstances, and nothing else.  "Former RoW" implies that very limited right no longer exists, which is very different from the right not being exercised as regularly as it once was.  These are facts, not assumption.

Shane, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.  I'm not deliberately having a go at you (for a change).  It's clear to me you (more or less) understand the issues here, but this not about you.

As for the rest though, TLDR - tell it to Don.  

What the neighbours feel, think, especially what they think they are entitled to, is entirely beside the point.  It's not their f***n land, and they have no more or less right to decide what it's used for than the rest of us.

I used to live in Goulburn (in part for the cycling), and spent a great deal of time researching all the issues regarding the RT to Crookwell.  I know full well what the farmers up there think: the RT is a conspiracy to allow the bogans down in Goulburn to come up and piss on their crops, rape their daughters and deprive them of their divinely gifted genetic purity.  I'm not at all surprised this has happened.  I know all about the legislative issues restricting the land's use, or re-titling.  It's the reason this sticks in my craw so much.

One more time:  F***ing Squatters.
  Yawn Station Master

Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
"the RT is a conspiracy to allow the bogans down in Goulburn to come up and piss on their crops, rape their daughters and deprive them of their divinely gifted genetic purity.  
One more time:  F***ing Squatters."

The squatters are our front line defence against the lycra louts.

Inch by inch we are fighting back.

The squatters are in there with bayonets drawn along the New England line.

The tide is turning.

It is a war that we shall win

And Thank God! Praise the Lord!
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


It is a war that we shall win
"Yawn"


How does someone from Crookwell describe a Goulburn person wearing a beanie and flannies ?

Camouflaged.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

This just appeared in my twitter feed.  
Paywalled, but I thought it curious the article should appear in the local press at this time.

https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/7303035/spectacular-the-goulburn-to-crookwell-rail-trail-is-an-absolute-treasure-video/?src=rss

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